Leyla McCalla is a Haitian-American artist who releases records on Anti- Records, is a member of Our Native Daughters, and has been commissioned to create music in conjunction with research at Duke University. We talk about how living an artistic life, and demonstrating that to a younger generation, is a strong form of societal change, how she juggles immense projects as a mother of three, and how she weaves history and academia into her writing and creative process.
Leyla McCalla is a Haitian-American artist who releases records on Anti- Records, is a member of Our Native Daughters, and has been commissioned to create music in conjunction with research at Duke University. We talk about how living an artistic life, and demonstrating that to a younger generation, is a strong form of societal change, how she juggles immense projects as a mother of three, and how she weaves history and academia into her writing and creative process.
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:00] Aaron: Hey, and welcome to this week's episode of the Other 22 Hours podcast.I'm your host Aaron Shafer-Haiss
[00:00:04] Michaela: And I'm your host, Michaela Anne, if you're brand new, thank you for checking us out and if you're a returning listener, thank you for joining us.
[00:00:12] Aaron: Again, For those of you that are new, this isn't your typical music podcast where guests come on and talk about their latest record or maybe a tour they're about to leave on.
We decided to call it the other 22 Hours because we wanted to focus on the time that we as musicians are off stage and talk to our guests about the different tools and routines that they have found to keep balance and inspiration in their lives during the less than shiny, mundane times.
Between
[00:00:33] Michaela: the two of us, Erin and I have almost 25 years of experience in the music business. I've worked at labels, been a teacher of music, and spent the better part of the last decade writing and recording my own records and putting them out independently, as well as with record labels and touring the world.
[00:00:50] Aaron: And I started making records with friends in high school and then spent a lot of years on the road with different bands and working as a assign with a lot of different artists.
And now I spend my time making records in my studio and with other producers and outside studios, and I also write music for tv. So through all of this, McKayla and I have realized that there's no one right way to create a career around your passion.
[00:01:12] Michaela: And in an industry where so much feels out of our control left up to look who you know, being in the right place at the right time, we wanted to focus on what is within our
[00:01:22] Aaron: control.
And so with that, we decided to invite our friends and some of our favorite artists on and ask them the question, what do you do to create sustainability in your life so that you can sustain your creativity?
[00:01:31] Michaela: Today's guest is Layla Macala, who is an incredible artist, cellist, singer, songwriter, and banjo player from New Orleans. She's a Haitian American, originally from the New York, New Jersey area, and she has toured the world, put out a couple different records, both incredibly rich, beautiful records. One called Very Colored Songs, which was made up of songs and tribute to Langston Hughes and her most recent record breaking the thermometer, she was in the Carolina Chocolate Drops.
And I personally met her almost eight years ago at this point when I had the great fortune of touring with her. So I've known her for a long time and was so excited to have her as our guest today.
[00:02:19] Aaron: we were honored to have Layla on as a guest. She is a mother of three and. Takes on really large creative projects. Her last record Breaking the Thermometer, she worked on for almost six years because it is a part of a theatrical production that she created with a team of people under commission from Duke University.
And it was just an amazing conversation to start our day with today. We talked a lot about how, being an artist a profession can really question and challenge the social norms inherent in a capitalistic society.
[00:02:50] Michaela: We talked about how living and demonstrating that lifestyle to the younger generation plants the seeds for fundamental social and societal change.
[00:02:59] Aaron: because of the way that Layla creates her art and does a lot of research behind her projects, we spent a lot of time talking about creating art to both gain an understanding of the world as well as to give voice to stories that have been minimized throughout history.
This conversation probably ran a little shorter than some of our other conversations, but it was really dense and really amazing.
So without further ado, here's our conversation with Layla Macala.
[00:03:22] Michaela: Thank you for being here.
[00:03:24] Leyla: Absolutely.
[00:03:25] Michaela: How are you this
morning?
[00:03:27] Leyla: I'm a little frizzled frazzled, my kids have professional development day, so their teachers are at school, but the kids stay home
and I, you know, I'd assumed like, oh, Monday I'll be great.
So I have planned all these meetings for today and then all of a sudden I had the kids this morning and
[00:03:44] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah.
I will say we had kind of a stressful morning set up for this. We were scrambling and so all of this that is going on
[00:03:52] Leyla: It's
[00:03:53] Aaron: is, yeah. Is is actually like
[00:03:55] Leyla: Yeah. Okay. It's comforting.
[00:03:57] Aaron: This is working out. This is working out
[00:03:59] Leyla: Yeah. You're like, now we can relax.
[00:04:02] Michaela: we had a whole plan of what we were gonna start with, but I feel like, given how this started, I just wanna jump to a different question of like, what is a typical day in your
[00:04:12] Leyla: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:13] Michaela: When you're not on tour promoting a record?
So like, when you're home, what does it look like, and do you even have a typical day or is every day
[00:04:21] Leyla: Yeah. Um, That's good question. So I have my typical plan for how the day is supposed to go, and then life always gets in the way.
[00:04:30] Michaela: Just cuz our listeners don't know all the things that we know, you have three children and
[00:04:35] Leyla: have three children. My oldest daughter is eight and a half, and then I have two five year old, nearly five year old twins. I can't believe they're about to be five.
I know. I
That happened fast.
[00:04:49] Aaron: Yeah. So you start every morning with at least like a little bit of quiet time before they
[00:04:55] Leyla: Yeah. Usually my, and it's so funny. Every single morning it's always, my son Zaid wakes up first, then my oldest daughter, Delilah wakes up and then Z's twin Z wakes up and it's always in that order and I always wake them up in that order. Last week was rough cuz it was daylight savings. And I just remember my daughter's eyes saying, I'm sleepy, I'm sleepy.
And it's like, pitch black outside. And I'm like, I know this is crazy. This is wrong. I'm with you girl, I'm with you. Um,
[00:05:28] Aaron: Yeah. my cousin is a farmer and he has the same complaint cuz he is like, my cows don't care what time it is. So I
have to get up regardless
[00:05:36] Michaela: They're doing away with it next year, supposedly the first year where we're not doing daylight savings.
[00:05:40] Aaron: I perpetually hear that they're doing away it.
[00:05:42] Michaela: I hope so. It's dumb. I never cared about it before, but now that we have a child, I'm like,
[00:05:48] Leyla: this is, This is wrong. Yeah. I think I saw a meme that was like, why don't they do it on a Monday at 4:00 PM instead of like, Sunday at two in the morning, we were like, this is like punishment for parents, you know? yeah. So anyway, I have to get my kids ready for school and, they all have to wear uniform brush teeth, comb hair, make them look presentable, make sure they have all the stuff in their backpack, make sure we're like, have all the things that we need.
Delilah has her school computer and cuz everything is about the computer and like, you know, this kind of. Reality of having to be able to navigate technology and, do all these like literacy apps. And honestly, I'm struggling with how much freaking work they give kids today. Yeah. At least at the school that we're at.
you know, it's weird because I feel like I'm an artist I care so much about, arts a part of education, but now I'm sending my kids to this school so that they have French language skills and there's just not an integrated arts curriculum. It's so rigorous academically.
And
Oh, yeah, that's something that I've been I just think about a lot as is this the right thing? Plus their school is 45 minutes away from our house, so I'm driving, three hours a day to pick up, to drop off, come home, and then to go pick them up. And so there is a certain element of the daily routine that just feels unsustainable because it takes so long to get to school.
And then like, there's so much homework this is the first year that I've been really pushing more extracurricular activities. Delilah just started playing the drum set, which has been really awesome. And it's so exciting to see her just light up and get into it and be inspired and have fun.
I feel like there's so much, kids can learn from music. But then she's also doing French tutoring, and then her siblings are doing soccer on Tuesdays, and I'm just like, oh my God. And then I'm playing a festival in Idaho this weekend, and I'm just like, what the hell is life?
[00:07:54] Michaela: and them speaking French is important because your family and their father's
[00:07:58] Leyla: Exactly. Well, that, how it felt in the beginning, and now I'm just kind of oh my God, does it have to come from school? what needs to come from school?
[00:08:06] Michaela: I feel like that's a really challenging thing I'm learning, having a child negotiating what do I think is best for them and what's best for.
[00:08:15] Leyla: Right.
[00:08:16] Michaela: in our everyday life our daughter goes to a little Montessori school and it is a further drive.
And at first I was very much
oh my God. But then we have less time. And I, thankfully, I still feel like we're in a position where it's worth it. but that constant, like what parts of your life and your time do you sacrifice for things that you think are benefiting your child?
It's just like a constant weighing everything and negotiation. That's so much. Also mental energy and weighing like what's best for her parents. So then therefore we're able to be better parents versus what's best for her to have the experience of. It's just,
[00:08:54] Leyla: I know,
I know. I think, I try to remember that the most important thing for my kids is that they feel loved. And that they feel secure that they know that even if they make mistakes or are mean to each other or whatever, that their mother loves them. I feel like I've spent a lot of time stressing about, what's gonna be best for them, especially navigating divorce, separation and touring.
And the absence of my physical presence is a recurring source of tension in my life, both internally and in my co-parenting relationship. and that is really hard. I do not like to be far from my children. Ultimately, if they know that they're loved and they know that mom needs to do this work to be who she is, to keep on providing the love that I, give them and that they receive, that's the most important thing.
And I'm starting to care less about whether they can speak French though. My daughter is like speaking French and it's amazing, you know, so it's just like, sometimes you have to stick with things to see if they're working or not too, I don't think that there's a perfect system for anything, I think that when I was, like, earlier in my parenting journey and when I was imagining what life would be like with kids, I didn't imagine myself doing it alone.
And I imagined that I was gonna make all the right decisions and always know what to do. And I was gonna have all the abundance and all the money to be able to bring the kids on the road whenever I want it. And now I'm like, y'all are expensive. I, I cannot afford four extra plane tickets that is not in the budget for any of my tours.
And so, the question of what is. Best for the kids. And what is best for me feels tricky. And it's also begins with them feeling that they are securely attached to their parents and loved unconditionally.
[00:10:54] Aaron: just a little bit ago, you mentioned in regard to your traveling. You said they know that, mom needs to travel for work and to be who she is. when you're talking to them like, this is what I do, this is how I express who I am. Is that the kind of language that you use
[00:11:06] Leyla: Yeah. Delilah toured with me and her father when she was very young, and so she kind of knew the routine. You know, She was like one of those two year olds who was just like, where's the green room? I want a snack, you know, On the road.
And we just brought her everywhere for the first few years of her life. And so she got to know the routine and she has an idea of what I'm doing when I am at work, because she experienced that. I also traveled with the twins for the first, 16 or so months of their life. They just grew up knowing like, oh, my mom is a singer. actually their teacher at school plays them a lot of my videos.
And so they see me at school too, and they know my songs. And on the way to school, they were, especially when I was listening a lot to my last record, my son Zaid would be like, I want mama's music this morning.
And so that was really cute On the way to school we'd be playing mama's music, you know? I think past two weeks starts to feel really long on the road to me. there's just no foolproof system for figuring out how long is too long or how short is too short.
It's hard to go to Europe and not take all the dates, you know? And I feel like our life is chasing dates, it's like we don't always get to choose when it's convenient. No one's like, when's spring break? Yeah.
fall break?
Like, the next parent teacher day? We'll plan it for that so that you can drive and bring the kids. Like, No, it doesn't work like that. So there's just no perfect system. And I think that really internalizing that, for myself, I think is, How I help my kids survive life because there is no perfect system for really anything in life, you know? and I feel like we often feel as musicians, like, or I have felt often, like no one understands, what this means and what this is like. And it's true, but really no one understands each other. we're all kind of, at living in this super individualistic society where we're just taught that we have to become self-reliant.
so I think that it's really hard to understand anyone's perspective. And, that's why I chose this path, because I really love my work and it's a big part of why I feel like I'm alive. It's a big part of why I feel like I'm on this planet. And I kind of feel like if you're not. Living your truth, whether you talk about it or not, your kids are just aware of that. It's an energetic thing. the idea that we can shelter them from the experience that we're having. even when I'm upset about something, it's my own mother has been, very present in my life recently.
She's living in New Orleans you know, when I'm upset about something, I walk in the door, she's like, what's wrong? There's just like a connection between our kids and ourselves that, we feel each other's energy and so it's tricky because I feel like there's always so much pulling on me, and maybe you feel that too, I have this many emails to respond to. I have this many songs that need to be written. I have things that I've said yes to. I gotta figure out how to fit in in the schedule. I gotta figure out the support that I need,
[00:14:13] Michaela: there's never enough
[00:14:15] Leyla: Yeah. There, are is not.
[00:14:17] Aaron: are there certain, tools or approaches that you've found that are helpful for you to like, either carve out that time or to be able to switch between parent mode and artist mode quickly? Cuz right now I'm just white knuckle it basically I need to do this now I'm doing it.
And it's kind of by brute force versus tact or skill. you're much further into the process than we are, so I'm wondering if there's anything you've found that helps.
[00:14:42] Leyla: think that earlier in my parenting experience, I would always be trying to do too much at the same time and get really frustrated And I think in the past year, past couple of years, really learning about the value of being fully present with my kids. Because if they're getting all of me, or, 85% of me in a moment, 70, 85%, then they are less likely to be like anxious and needy, you know? but if they are getting me distracted, looking at my phone, responding to emails, doing this or that while I'm trying to distract them with TV or, it ends up creating more problems So that's, something that I've been working hard at.
you know, and we have little things that we do like, there's a little community garden plot and Zaden zaya, my twins just got their bicycles. So we'll bike down to the garden and water the garden and weed for a little bit, and then we come back and then they're like more calm, and I can like write a couple emails or take a shower.
But yeah, I really feel that, especially because I am not always. Physically here, I really need to be emotionally and mentally available to them for this to feel sustainable in any way. And that's work that we have to do on our own, you know, as parents. And, it's not easy, you know, it's not easy cuz there's endless distractions and there's endless things pulling on us.
And, you know, and our kids have that too. they need that connection and that focus, I really believe that children do not do what we say they do what we do. so I can't say, Focus on this thing. If I can't focus on this thing, add on myself, you know, or stay calm if I can't even stay calm or whatever the issue is.
You know, like, I can't say, don't be mean if I'm being mean. I think that there's a lot of, that kind of hypocrisy that a lot of us have grown up with, where like, the paradigm is shifting, know, we know better now, what our kids need to be happy and healthier people.
I've also been thinking like, is it possible to have a life without trauma? I don't think so. So I'm just letting go of the idea that I can control exactly who they're gonna become, what they're going to absorb, and so I focus on the things that I, want them to be able to remember.
You know, we cook a lot together, we bake a lot. We go to the farmer's market together. things like that.
[00:17:17] Michaela: Yeah. Well, I think also that presence that you were talking about we would all benefit from practicing without children. But I feel like on tour especially and in life for me, before children, you're just on your phone constantly, especially on tour because you're like riding in a car van and like, looking at your phone, you answer emails constantly.
I never had designated times to respond to things. It was just whenever I looked at it and I would think, oh, I should respond to that later, or I'll respond to it now and I'm learning that's actually not. Efficient and it's not healthy for my brain and then it's not healthy for my child.
So having more like compartments of, even, this is the time that I can veg out and scroll social media and I'm not gonna just do it randomly through the day because I'm not even aware of how constant that happens and that this little child is looking up, noticing that I'm giving more attention to my phone than looking at her reading a book and I think we don't know the impact of that because this is so new and it feels really important to be conscious of not doing that in front of our
children
[00:18:24] Leyla: I'm feeling very called out right now. No, I'm just kidding.
[00:18:29] Aaron: I, I get, oh my God, I get literally called out all the
[00:18:32] Michaela: time. We call each other out all the time because we're like, okay, this is something that we should be conscious of and let's not do this. And then we'll see the other person doing it after we've just been doing it for like 20 minutes, and then we're like, Hey, you know, you're really on your phone a lot.
And then the other person's like, uh,
[00:18:47] Leyla: my God. It's so hard when it's just me and I'm just like, oh my God, you guys need to get me some space. but I also like, okay, you're not needing space right now. how are we going to negotiate this? I grew up in a Haitian American family. I believe my parents respected me, but they did not come from a culture where children were like, equals at all. And maybe children are not equals, I'm not saying that's necessarily appropriate, but it was like children were expected to behave all the time.
I'm pretty like loose and, have not been very structured historically. So parenting has made me reassess. What that means and how that affects my kids to not have a plan for the day or structure or like be more organized, I always love that James Baldwin quote that says love is a growing up. and I feel like that is the essence of the parenting experience. It's like you love your children and they force you to grow up, they force you to face, the, unmet needs that you might have had.
and they force you to really think about how you talk to them because then you start seeing them talking to other people like that, or, absorbing your habits.
[00:19:57] Michaela: And I think in that, becoming a parent and forcing you to grow up, and also in your situation, having three children and being a single mom, so much of what requires you to be fully present and for lack of a better term, successful or thriving in that environment, can feel contradictory to what we've learned.
Is the culture of being a musician, which kind of has this like arrested development tendency in certain circles of the lifestyle. Being a musician, of being a creative of whenever the inspiration hits you and going with the flow and late nights, it can feel so indirect contradiction of what life with young children is.
And I think what you said earlier about feeling like nobody understands, that's motivation for this podcast of sharing the things that we don't necessarily have opportunity as musicians to commune with and share not just the hardship, but sometimes I think there's this feeling of like, oh, we don't wanna share the hardship because we want other people to think we've got it together we're progressing.
And we also don't want people to think, oh God, they're struggling, so we don't wanna invite them. To the festival or to on this tour or whatever, cuz they look like a hot mess. And how to develop more opportunities, especially as
still artists, still musicians don't wanna be relegated to their house and forbidden from touring and making contributions.
How do we create more opportunities to share these things and also ways to help each other in it and be more open and accepting of this is life. This isn't a burden that you have three children. And that's a part of having Layla as part of this art. That's not like a negative. That's actually incredibly enriching to who you are.
And not an
[00:21:47] Leyla: Mm-hmm. Yeah it's hard because you don't know where people are coming from. Some people have that perspective, you know? and some people are just like, whoa, that's crazy. Like, I tell people sometimes that I have three kids their face like completely transforms and I'm like, oh, that's how you feel about that.
[00:22:05] Michaela: Well, I think it's also still a new concept for a mother to have multiple children and be the one that's leaving home and out there creating and traveling. I think it's been very common for fathers to
[00:22:20] Leyla: Right. People always say who are the kids with? I'm like,
their dad.
Their dad is very involved in their lives, and that's always like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is interesting. I'm like, I've had nannies before, but really the kids wanna be with me or their dad.
I think our society, we have to create the change that we wanna be, which I feel like in a lot of ways is we're the pioneers of this, for the arts community. Which is never gonna be a completely comfortable position, because there's so much unknown.
There's so much unchartered, but. I do feel like one of the reasons why I've chosen to live a creative life is that there is a lot of magic in it, and there is a lot of coincidence and serendipity and community and, thinking outside of the box. And those things are really important to me in my life.
And I think that they are gonna be increasingly important to the world that our children are inheriting. being able to be part of community and also feel empowered to become a parent. I want to be part of a world where there is a lot of agency around how you build your life, and that you're not just being plugged into a system.
Um, And that's something that I like about. The way that I've been able to build my career, is that it doesn't feel easy all the time. It doesn't feel easeful. But I do have all these systems of accountability for showing up for myself and my creative practice. I have, created the momentum to have opportunities that have me part of research projects or collaborations or, bigger things that have felt greatly enriching to my experience as a human being.
And to be able to pass that to my kids or exhibit that for my kids, I think is just such a gift, there's times when I've wanted to like, work a nine to five job and like, feel. less in uncharted territory, but I think that's just a FARs, like we're all in uncharted territory, whether you work a nine to five or not.
I mean, Think of all the people who were laid off during the pandemic. that was like a real moment for me of realizing oh my God, I have a career. I am not sinking. And a lot of people did, you know, a lot of people did. And they were doing, the things that they were told they should do in order to have security.
And I don't feel like I can talk about my life as a single parent musician without realizing that we're all kind of under this Neo-colonial capitalist system, I, my approach to my life has been that I have to actively work to dismantle that. And, part of it is the in invisible labor of parenting and nurturing children and raising children and, exhibiting other ways of existing in this world and in this society.
[00:25:17] Aaron: Absolutely. Tying back to what you were saying about the pandemic, I had that paradigm shift for myself during the pandemic as well. I was like, oh, what I've created, what Mikayla has created as a career for ourselves. The world can shut down and we can continue on. And it got me really thinking about these people that have been plugged into, I don't know, stereotypically like the corporate, pipeline of, go to school, maybe go to more school, graduate, get a job, work, build your retirement and then retire.
All these people get laid off, and then what do they do? And then you see, lot of people in our community, one arm of our business shuts down, you know, touring gets pulled out from underneath us. But then there are all these other things. There's this flexibility and this creativity in different outlets that makes it very malleable and a very sustainable in a way we all know can be very hard to make it financially sustainable.
Mm-hmm. But that creativity and that flexibility in a profession is actually a really sustainable
[00:26:13] Leyla: Yeah. I think the question is are you capable of shifting with what the shift is? You know, Because the business I think is always changing, I think probably part of why this podcast that you're creating exists is because we don't live in a culture that believes that everyone deserves healthcare. That women should have full agency and autonomy over their own bodies. there are kind of systems of oppression that we are all navigating that most of our budget goes towards the military, our priorities as a society is not, nurturing children to. Live creative lives, so that's why we're swimming upstream, and I don't know if that's going to change in and of itself, without the larger societal shift.
[00:27:03] Michaela: I never thought of it the way that you said, part of your intent to try and dismantle the capitalistic, oppressive system that we have is through the invisible labor of raising new humans and modeling to them that there's a different way to live. And I never really thought about it that way, of oh, we're planting seeds and growing this new type of crop to like go into the world and create a new system.
in that way it's really important for us to raise children. It makes me think of Iris Dement. Have you listened to Iris
[00:27:36] Leyla: I've, I've heard, uh, snippets of it.
[00:27:38] Michaela: Okay. I feel like you would love it. It's incredible. And she has a song, it's very overtly commenting on political, social justice, everything that's happening.
She has a song called Working on the World. I think that might be the name of the record, but it's all about working on a world that I might never see and for the next generations. And I think these conversations are what help. Fertilize those seeds for all of us of, there's different ways to live.
even when we choose these alternative paths, we have to do a a lot of mental work and a lot of labor to try and stay in our paths and not be pulled into the quote unquote normal systems or why, still people don't think what we do is a real job. People always refer to like, oh, do you have a real job? But sharing stories and ways to do it is what helps people feel supported. And I go back all the time to, you and I met when you're oldest. Delilah was like three months old, eye opened like a two week tour for you guys. And you were, you were driving around in a minivan with your husband and your bass player and your three month old baby.
And I remember you said, That when you got pregnant, you knew, you didn't think, oh, I have to give up my career. Because you had toured with RI and Giddens and the Carolina Shaka drops and you saw Rihanna do it with two children. So you knew it was possible and then you did it. and I also played shows with Birds of Chicago, Alison Russell, and jt, and formerly Mandolin Orange.
I saw all these examples of people making it work with babies. That then made me think every time the greater narrative of that's is impossible. How are you going to keep being a touring musician with a child? I was like, no, I know it's possible. And I always think of that chain of you seeing it firsthand then me seeing it firsthand from you and that support and how valuable.
Texting you throughout this last year of like, how do I leave for five days when I'm still nursing and how do I do this? And like the invaluable support of other parents on this path and other mothers sharing what this does to our bodies and like knowing that I'm not alone and there's like tricks that is massive and that's part of, just like these conversations are important to not try and always just cope
[00:29:58] Leyla: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:59] Michaela: and share, not that it's just a bitch fest or an area event and wallow in how hard this is, but to feel seen in the struggle and then therefore support each other in the struggle.
[00:30:10] Leyla: Yeah, I think it's really hard for me to remember that I'm not alone sometimes, you know? Everything is like a practice, and we have to practice being appreciative of the things that we have. We have to practice continuing to be open to things that we want, despite the fact that they might feel impossible or far off.
We have to believe that we can have an empowered, life. In order to be able to follow through with it. You know, I really do believe it begins with faith because of course I'm like, yeah, Rihanna, Giddens had kids and you know, I know it's possible and I knew it was gonna be possible for me. I still don't know how, and my kids are like starting to be older kids, you know, and I'm just like, I ask myself all the time, how is this gonna work? How is this gonna work? How is this gonna work? Because I'm gonna make it work cuz I have, cuz I'm also not the first and I'm not the last, you know, I'm part of a long line of people who are charting different ways to exist and different ways to raise really good people.
[00:31:13] Michaela: You mentioned that you have systems of accountability in place for your creative
practices And, you do a lot of deeper multi-dimensional work beyond just writing songs and recording a record. often there's an academic aspect to it.
If you can kind of briefly share about your most recent project, but then also what are those systems of accountability to still be able to tackle these pretty ambitious projects and do them really well.
[00:31:40] Leyla: So my latest project, it's called Breaking the Thermometer. And it's an album that I made based off of a theater work that I had been developing for the last five, six years. I was commissioned to create uh, multimedia theater performance based on the archives of radio Haiti.
My family is from Haiti, and so Haiti figures strongly in, the things that I'm processing about the world and the things that I'm processing about history. I'm very interested in history and society and culture and kind of the intersections between all those things and figuring out how they affect us today.
So, I, did a lot of research at this archive, learning about the lives of journalists in Haiti in the seventies and eighties and nineties, who really, risked their lives to be able to tell the truth about their countrymen. And learned a lot about the tragedies and, and triumphs and, how important it is that we exercise freedom of speech and have an, an independent press as a part of any sort of democratic process. And so been thinking a lot about those things. I think the whole world has been thinking a lot about those things over the last couple of years. When I started the project, it was under the Trump administration and, studying the du Valier regime, it's like, whoa. There's a lot of like authoritarian parallels here.
And then, obviously now it's Biden, journalists lives are still being threatened throughout the world. And truth a fragile, thing that is often persecuted. truthsayers are often persecuted, whether they be artists or, intellectuals, academics, lawyers, journalists for sure.
All. Kinds of people in all different sectors of society. So that was my last project. But a lot of my work about, my first record was, released in tribute to Langston Hughes, and it was based on Langston Hughes's poetry and, I just really love projects that require a lot of research.
So I do a lot of reading in general. oftentimes my projects are born of what I'm reading or listening to. so I enjoy doing that work. For that project in particular, I, first of all was being commissioned by Duke University. That's a pretty big deal. And then I assembled a team of collaborators, who we were in regular contact about all of these things.
And as the lead artist on the project I had a lot of say in how. How things go, and are presented. And what the story is. And, it was very much about building a narrative and being able to tell a story. And I just learned so much about that. And then on top of that, I have a label that's like, when are you gonna give us the masters?
You know, like I have managers that are like, what are the dates? You know, like, So when I say systems of accountability, I mean, I have deadlines, I have meetings, I have other people who are making sure that the meeting is scheduled. Even this, you know, it was like, okay, I'm going to show up and a bunch of people know that I'm gonna show up and we're gonna make this happen, you know? and so I feel like I have that at all levels of my career. I also recently accepted a, position as an artist and residence at the University of Richmond in Virginia. So, Yeah, it's been really amazing. And so I visit twice per semester and speak with students and visit classrooms and talk a lot about my work.
And, I think that, The momentum that I've built, at least, if not on the commercial side, on the academics and research side has been super fulfilling for me. And it keeps me motivated, and so to have, a community of people who are just like really invested in a lot of the research that I'm doing or want to help me in some way and want to be a part of it, that has been a really amazing thing to see blossom over the last 10 years.
[00:35:28] Aaron: Yeah. You mentioned your, first record was, based in Langston Hughes. Have you always created. In this way where there's uh, research historical background, or were these two disparate parts of your being and your, what you enjoyed doing that kind of just fused naturally.
[00:35:45] Leyla: I think that it it has always been a part of my research, my solo career really started about 10 years ago when I left the Carolina Chocolate Drops. And I felt like that was always like me getting my master's degree, like touring with them, I mean, I learned so many like, life skills during that time.
pre-kids. But also I think one of the biggest things I took away from that experience was that you can blend, academic research with a music career, with performance. being able to like, Really tap into that has been such a huge part of my experience as an artist.
It's really grounded me in things that I am truly passionate about. I just don't know if I will ever just create music that doesn't reflect something that I'm processing or reading about or, wanna know more about, I, I think the Carolina Chocolate drops were, obviously very influential the folk music world for a number of reasons.
But just the simple fact of pre Carolina chocolate drops, there was not an accepted. Understanding of the banjo as, an instrument that came to the United States as part of the transatlantic slave trade that simple fact. It's not that long ago, that people started to really absorb that, and be able to talk about that.
And, the places that we would play were very often white spaces. And so the educational component, of that, was really impactful for me, you know, and it made me feel like that's how I can make this more meaningful for myself. I mean, I love music, I love being in the studio.
I love putting sounds together too. But in terms of the generative process, of writing a song or. Putting together a piece The emotional core for me is often rooted in telling stories that are not told enough or have been, excluded or, or hidden for whatever reason, and I'm always just curious about that. And so that really drives me. And being in touch with that as a part of my process has also just really grounded a lot of my work in a way that feels very me,
[00:37:57] Michaela: And I would imagine very purposeful beyond, I could just be projecting my own struggles of, ego with a music career. your personal history and emotions and feelings are so intertwined with everything that you're writing about and is part of it. But there's this bigger purpose that's not just about your single feeling life, right?
[00:38:21] Leyla: Yeah, I I'm probably a lot of that comes from being a black woman growing up in America from a Haitian family, just a lot of questions about my identity my entire life. You know, like, where are you from? What are you? And feeling like I never really fit cleanly into any boxes that our society asks us if we fit into these boxes.
And I was always like, I don't know, like I've got a lot of different identities and a lot of different heritages and course I identify as black, but that feeling of not being so cleanly identifiable in one way and never being invisible, because of that, has been a big motivator for me too.
And a big part of the way I've chosen to live my life is like, I never fit in any boxes. I was never made to fit in a box. I was always made to create my own box in my own way.
[00:39:15] Aaron: it's fun to hear you say that because we just had Melanie Charles on our
podcast, who you know Melanie?
[00:39:21] Leyla: her.
[00:39:21] Aaron: her parents are Haitian and she was born and raised in Brooklyn. But she was saying the same thing about really having to come to terms with, and step out against basically being told what box do you fit in?
Like, why do you not fit in this box? And a lot of her work and her process is I don't fit in that box and I don't want to fit in the box that you tell me that I should
fit in. I am multifaceted.
[00:39:41] Leyla: I relate to that and I have to remind myself of it regularly because I'm always like, Why am I feeling insecure? Oh. Because it's that thing where I'm suddenly feeling like I'm not sure that I can do it the way that other people are, need it to be done. And even if that's not being asked of me, you know what I mean?
It's like, it's such a practice to um, deconstruct that way of thinking.
[00:40:06] Michaela: Well, And I think cuz there's this greater message, whether you hear it directly or overtly on a daily basis, but within American culture, I feel like we want everybody to fit into a box very neatly. And then there's even like the next level of being a black woman in America, where as a white person, my perception is that our greater American idea is black is one thing.
there's this one African American idea that every person who has dark skin fits under, and the work that you're doing is combating that narrative and explaining, no, there's so much rich, nuanced, very different history, cultures, countries of origin. So much bigger than our main narrative in America wants to recognize or has shown much interest in
[00:41:00] Leyla: Yeah. And I think part of that for me is that it begins with the education system, which is maybe why I'm so drawn to academic, projects because, our education has been, oh my God, I was dying last week. Y'all Delilah came home. She's like, we're learning about colonialism and the Native Americans.
And I said to her, Delilah, you know, there's, native American people still exist when they're still part of our world. This isn't just the past, it isn't just what you're being told at school. But I was also just kind of like, really? Like, Is this really still where we're at?
[00:41:30] Michaela: I think in some states we're trying to go even further back.
[00:41:34] Leyla: Yeah. I mean, yes.
[00:41:36] Michaela: Tennessee
[00:41:37] Leyla: Tennessee, Florida, I mean outlawing of books. I feel that there is a lack of intellectual curiosity and an acceptance of the Western European perspective, and also just like with my kids, I can't just say what I believe and say what I think.
I have to actually live those principles. I actually have to show up for what my ideal is in my life, and I have to create my life out of that, not just my art, but my actual life, the way I live my life. And I think that that's also, why artists are so important, you know, because they do give us A way of seeing the world, just by their mere existence in the way that we've been able to craft lives that are not, status quo.
[00:42:22] Michaela: Yeah, that's a beautiful. Way to end cuz we're, we wanna be conscious of your time. I will say Eric Ward, who is a incredible social justice activist he was the director of Western State Center and Southern Poverty Law Center fellow. And I met him because of you, because he was a friend of
your father's and came to the show in New York that I opened for you,
like back in 2014. long story short, he always says, artists are so important in social justice and social change because artists have the ability to imagine a new world
and communicate that. that's what it feels like you just said.
[00:42:59] Leyla: That's what I'm trying to say.
[00:43:01] Michaela: Yeah.
[00:43:02] Leyla: That's what I'm trying to do. I'm like, don't kill my imagination. Please Jesus. The
[00:43:08] Michaela: daily practice of staying committed to that and remembering your value in that.
[00:43:16] Leyla: Yeah. In a world that doesn't always, Val value artists, you know, it's, we
[00:43:21] Michaela: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:21] Leyla: each other.
[00:43:22] Michaela: exactly. Well, We know your time is very precious, so we don't wanna take any more of it. I've been loving these conversations cause we could talk
forever with so many people. I feel like we just scratched the surface with you. But thank you so much for giving us your time and being
[00:43:37] Leyla: Absolutely. I appreciate you wanting me to be a part of this.