Lucius have released 4 records of their own, as well as appearing on records with the likes of Roger Waters, Jackson Browne, The War On Drugs, Brandi Carlile, John Prine, Sheryl Crow, to name a FEW. We talk about how they juggle this insane schedule, partnership and collaboration, how they've constantly morphed and reinvented all while (and because of) keeping a loyal team behind them, co-writing for the first time, and the rejuvenating power in simple mundane chores.
Lucius have released 4 records of their own, as well as appearing on records with the likes of Roger Waters, Jackson Browne, The War On Drugs, Brandi Carlile, John Prine, Sheryl Crow, to name a FEW. We talk about how they juggle this insane schedule, partnership and collaboration, how they've constantly morphed and reinvented all while (and because of) keeping a loyal team behind them, co-writing for the first time, and the rejuvenating power in simple mundane chores.
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:07] Aaron: Hey, and welcome to this week's episode of the Other 22 Hours podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:12] Michaela: And I'm your host Michaela Anne. And if you're new to the podcast, thank you for checking us out. If you're a returning listener, thank you for returning.
[00:00:19] Aaron: For those of you that are new to the podcast, this show is not your typical music interview show.
We're not gonna talk. The guest's latest record or a tour they're about to go on, we are going to talk about the other 22 hours, the times that we as musicians are not on stage, and maybe some of the tools and the routines that our guests have found to help them stay sane, inspired, and creative as they're navigating and building a sustainable career around their.
[00:00:46] Michaela: Between the two of us, Aaron and I have almost 25 years of experience in the music business. I've worked at labels and. Taught music in schools and privately and spent the better part of the last decade, building my independent career as a recording artist and touring the world.
[00:01:04] Aaron: And I started playing in bands and making records with friends in high school, and then spent a lot of years on the road with a lot of different bands.
I two taught a lot classes in New York City public schools and ran community percussion ensembles, and now I find. Spending my time here in my studio in Nashville, producing records and writing music for tv. and through all of this, Mikayla and I have learned that there's no one right way to build a career around your passion.
[00:01:32] Michaela: And in an industry where so much feels out of our control, up to luck, up to being at the right place at the right time, who you know, we wanted to focus on the things that are within our control.
[00:01:45] Aaron: And so with that in mind, we decided to invite some of our friends and our favorite artists on to have the conversation about all the other times that are outside of the public eye and ask them the question, what do you do to create sustainability so that you can sustain your creativity?
the friends that we invited today are Lucius,
[00:02:00] Michaela: Jess and Holly who make up Lucius are an incredible duo that are known for their blend where their two voices sound like one. They have released several records of their own original music toward the world, but they also are in demand collaborators and performers.
[00:02:19] Aaron: Even if you've never heard of their name before, I'm sure that you've heard their voices. They have been on records with Jeff Tweedy, Brandy Carlisle, the War on Drugs, Cheryl Crow, Grace Potter, Lucas Nelson, John Prine, Joni Mitchell, and spent a few years on the road with Roger Waters and are also on his record.
[00:02:38] Michaela: Yeah, they have a wealth of experience as front woman as well as supporting musicians. So it was really cool to talk to them and hear how they have learned over the years to prioritize their time and different projects, what they do to rejuvenate the power of rest and the healing aspect of home and mundane domestic activities.
[00:03:03] Aaron: And so with. Here's our conversation with Lucius.
[00:03:06] Michaela:
How are you guys this morning?
[00:03:07] Lucius: Good. Tired but good.
[00:03:09] Michaela: Tiny. Yeah,
[00:03:10] Lucius: Good. It's finally not raining, which is, I mean it's,
been just insane in, in California the last couple of months, so
[00:03:19] Aaron: yeah. Yeah. With rain and snow, right? Like Didn't I see it? It even snowed in LA like a little bit. You had
some flakes fall or something. Geez.
[00:03:27] Lucius: Yeah. but the mountains around la cuz you can see him. This we're just covered like mm-hmm. swiss Alps or somebody who's very bizarre, you know, palm trees. It was actually really beautiful. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. You know, You expect that in Seattle Or Portland.
[00:03:42] Michaela: Or Nashville. W Nashville winter is just, mm-hmm. So dark and rainy. It's pretty depressing.
[00:03:48] Lucius: Yeah.
[00:03:48] Michaela: Anyways, I wanted to start off establishing just how long we've known each other. I think it's probably been almost, I don't know, 15 years, 13 years that we've all known each other and we go way back to like right outta college Brooklyn days.
And I was thinking about, I still vividly remember the moment I met you guys was in the Bromley house and David Lizzie had invited me to come and sing with the Chupa Copper Kings, the country cover band that would play at Rockwood all the time. And I remember sitting on the couch with you, Jess, and meeting you all for the first time and something came up about your band.
And I said, oh, you have a band? And you said, yeah, we're called Lucius. for some reason I remember that moment. But when we were talking about talking to you guys, one of the unique things about you, even from those early days is that you've always been so involved in your community and singing and performing with other people while clearly prioritizing your band as well, and that it's been incredible as a friend to just watch how that has expanded and grown to so many heights.
And how do you do that? Like how do you have like the energy, is that just like a natural extension of communally, how you
[00:05:07] Lucius: I'll say the energy level has definitely gone down the last few years. I'm sure that pandemic has something to do with that. Like when you're just going all the time, you're used to going all the time. Mm-hmm. You're used to saying yes and like, know, if you're on tour with someone else, you naturally wanna perform together or collaborate.
If you're in a community of other artists, you wanna exchange. So it was always very natural. Mm-hmm. And And we are collaborators, constant collaborators obviously. So, extending that outwardly is just fun. But also you learn a lot when you work with other people. But in pandemic, I, I feel like because we all stopped, we were forced to stop.
Yeah. Particularly the touring aspect. The energy level, it's been a little bit harder to get back up and running in a way that doesn't feel like much harder than it did before.
[00:05:55] Aaron: Yeah. Is that is that a welcome change
[00:05:57] Lucius: It was for a while, but, like the pause was welcome. Holly had her child, my godson There were a lot of beautiful parts that came out of it. we were already on kind of a hiatus from our own thing cuz we were supporting Roger Waters and doing, you know, these other collaborations and singing on other people's records Yeah.
And stuff. So then when the pandemic came along, it was like sort of an unwanted extension of that hiatus. So coming out of that was like, oh, we have to get back to our thing. And it's been so long at this point and now so many people know us for doing this work with others. And because there's two of us and we're like an automatic background unit, so this has been a topic of conversation for us lately because we love doing it, but it becomes difficult to navigate. Us as our own artists versus us as like a unit singing with other people.
[00:06:52] Michaela: Yeah.
How do you guys negotiate do the conversations include like what you guys feel like doing for your artistic personal experiences, and then also what might be the right decision for your kind of like larger career goals and business?
[00:07:09] Lucius: Yeah. it's more of a conversation now. Whereas I think before we were like it's easy for us to collaborate. It's easy for us to sing backgrounds, to sing harmonies to whatever. Now we're just having to be more purposeful, thoughtful about our approach, yeah. I think when you're starting out, for us, We were like if you have to be at the right place at the right time, just be at every place at every time and, and something will click. And so we were just like, ran ourselves into the ground and you know, you get older, you like, have less energy, you get more particular about what is gonna move you creatively, you know, when at the end of the day, is this fulfilling me, more than just getting exposure or whatever.
And that's, I think that's kind of where we're at. But I do think it worked for a while. It did work for a while.
[00:07:57] Aaron: you had said preservation of energy and focusing of energy on what's important. And that has been a really common theme in all of these conversations we have. And I know, like for us, that's something that the pandemic really taught us, and I think, I don't know if your experience was this like leaving New York, for me it was like 12 years of pumping up Reebok pumps and like, I can do this in like, the inertia of being everywhere all at once something's gonna stick and then you just get caught in it and then you step back and you're like, oh, it doesn't have to be like that.
Which was like what the pandemic was for us. Now it's oh, maybe if we, focus our energy in a specific way, in fewer directions, for what we want, it can be not only more successful, but more fulfilling and more sustainable.
[00:08:40] Lucius: Well, We're trying to take that cue. Yeah.
We haven't been the best at that, but I do agree that being in New York, you know, especially when we all were there mm-hmm. there was like a real vibrancy and a pulse.
[00:08:52] Aaron: Yeah. Especially in Dimi. I mean, you'd go get coffee and it'd take me two hours to get coffee, even though it was right down the street. Cuz I'd run into everybody
[00:08:59] Lucius: Exactly. and
it was, it was so alive and it was so exciting. It was a perfect place to be really figuring out, you know, your creative intentions cuz Yeah.
the community was everything for us.
And then it got to a point where you're on tour for a long period of time and you come back and you're like, wait a minute, where did everybody go?
They're either on tour or they moved to different cities and it just started to feel like it was time to be somewhere where we could have a little more sunshine. A backyard. Barbecue. Yeah.
[00:09:29] Michaela: Yeah. And I think focusing on like your, smaller circle, I think it's a natural progression. When you're younger your life is so filled by your friends and being out and wanting to meet people, especially as musicians, like so much is about building your, I hate the word networking, but your network of relationships.
And then I think there's just a natural tendency as you get older of like, oh, I wanna build my home life, my family life, even if it's, you know, you and a partner, whatever, we're keep, we're
[00:10:03] Lucius: She
[00:10:04] Michaela: keeping that in.
[00:10:05] Lucius: She got the cue
[00:10:06] Michaela: Which one is
[00:10:07] Lucius: turtle.
[00:10:08] Michaela: I have video of sleeping with turtle one time when I stayed at your, House when you weren't there and she was really intense. All up in the covers and stuff.
[00:10:20] Lucius: Oh Yeah.
She loves to snuggle. She's a puppy. She's kind of a dog. Yeah,
dog. Dog, cat, everyone who is not a cat person meets turtle and becomes one.
[00:10:30] Michaela: Oh yeah, I
remember that.
So when navigating all that stuff, like your decisions and how you spend your time since there are two of you, are there ever times that you're not on the same page or are you guys pretty much in sync of those type of decisions? And if you aren't on the same page, how do you deal with that?
[00:10:48] Lucius: I think usually like if one of us really doesn't want to do something Yeah. Then we both agree that it's not the Right.
thing. Yeah. Because unless, financially we have to do it or whatever, if it doesn't make sense for whatever reason, emotionally or physically, you know, we've got each other's back There's always things that are popping up and it's very easy to be like, ah, I wanna do that because this, that, or the other. you kinda learn what is worth it and what isn't Sometimes over the course of just saying yes to everything and then doing it and being like, eh, I don't think we need to do that again.
You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. And like how much you're putting in Yeah. Versus what you're potentially getting back. We have to think about those things because everything's taking a little more out of us. I guess it's age, I guess it's just time. Yeah.
And just wanting to focus on your own thing and having energy for that.
Yeah. Like having the most energy for that.
[00:11:44] Michaela: Yeah. So your lucious project has become the priority again,
I'm
[00:11:49] Lucius: yeah,
definitely.
It's happened a few times where we have tended to other things and then we get back to needing to ride or whatever, and just have no brain power for it. Our own thing suffers if we're not tending to it.
Just like anything.
[00:12:06] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yeah. getting back to Lucius and, collaborating and all of that, and correct me if I'm wrong, you guys had a ton of co-writers on the record you just put out, right?
[00:12:14] Lucius: Yeah.
[00:12:15] Aaron: Is that a new thing? I don't know about writing on the earlier records.
[00:12:18] Lucius: Yeah. And Danny co-wrote a couple things on Will to Woman. But we had never done that. And
um,
it was really good for us. There was a lot going on personally for me and obviously for both of us in pandemic and having spent so much time on the road and then stopping mm-hmm. everything suddenly, it was really nice to have somebody to bounce ideas off of that was outside of us. Cuz you know, we do everything together pretty much. Mm-hmm. we really almost experience each other's lives as a constant witness. And that's what makes it easy for us to be able to.
Together on behalf of one another for each other, as a unit. Mm-hmm. And this just provided a little bit of perspective and it was really welcomed. Yeah. And it all happened during lockdown pretty much. So we were zooming all the rights were Zoom rights
and all the writers hated it cuz they had like never done that before. Mm-hmm.
I loved it. We had never written with other people before, so we loved it cuz it was, you know, very time efficient. It's no one wants to spend more than three hours on a Zoom call or whatever. Exactly. And, so it was good. But it was crazy because recently we met a couple of them in person and it was just like, wait, we haven't met in person.
Right. Yeah. Laurie McKenna, we've written like seven songs together and we had after three and a half years. We had only just met, in February. Wow. Wow.
we met at the Kelly, Kelly Clark Clarkson Shaping. Yeah. And again, we had written in, in pandemic and, you know, a couple of our songs made record and everything, and we had never met.
And he lives in our city. Yeah. But I legitimately had to be like, have we met in person yet? I can't. No. Okay. We haven't.
[00:14:06] Michaela: such a weird time. Yeah,
[00:14:09] Aaron: it's so strange. And I write with a lot of people that still love to write on Zoom and it's just such a weird thing
[00:14:17] Lucius: Uhhuh. Yeah. You hate it
[00:14:19] Aaron: I've learned that I have to approach it to write a certain type of song. for me, if you're trying to like go deep and really like excavate, I'm not gonna be able to get there on Zoom,
[00:14:28] Lucius: How do your Zoom rights, like how do they go.
[00:14:31] Aaron: Yeah, so two ways. I'll either send somebody a sketch, you know, and it'll be more like a producer top liner situation where I send them a sketch that's, 60% of the way there and so we're writing to that foundation. But I've done some recently where, we kind of, sit and talk and touch base
[00:14:48] Lucius: Uhhuh.
[00:14:49] Aaron: turn our mics off, turn our cameras off.
I'll sketch something up, send it to them, then we'll talk about that. Turn the mics off, turn the cameras off, they'll right to that and send it back and forth so it doesn't feel like somebody's like looking over your shoulder the whole time.
[00:15:00] Lucius: huh?
[00:15:00] Aaron: also weird, kind of like writing alone together with separation, but it doesn't feel like the weird like, oh, somebody's staring at me while I'm sitting here, just like scratching my head.
[00:15:10] Lucius: we were always in the same room. Yeah, I was just gonna say that maybe cuz we were in the same room. It didn't
feel like that. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:17] Michaela: And Aaron's writing often under the guise of like licensing and sync stuff, right? Like specifically for placement versus I've tried to do, you know, Nashville writing of just to be a writer and it doesn't work for me.
Like I'm just a writer that I can't be conscious of any like, business intention. I only can just write emotional stuff that I'm feeling. But for you guys, when you're writing for a record, is that a lot of processing emotional stuff that you've been going through? Or do you also have times where you're like, we want this type of song for the record?
[00:15:53] Lucius: I think the, we want this type of song stuff. only really comes at the end. we start with just things that are brewing and whatever comes up and then it's like, okay, we have a good selection of songs. Like how do these two go together? And what's missing? Also, like sometimes if we want a specific type of song, a lot of times it doesn't come very naturally. You know, The things that come out the quickest, usually the easiest are the ones that sort of always were meant to exist. Yeah. And the songs that we like performing most of the time.
So many songwriters, we start our session trying to write a Radiohead song, doesn't work out, and then we write our own one.
[00:16:33] Aaron: Totally. I remember like, being like a jazz school kid there's a lot of idolizing, the greats and all that when you're sitting in jazz and like, somebody was like, man, stop trying to be who your idol is. Just chase what they were chasing.
take inspiration from them that way. And like where you end up is gonna be your own thing and it's gonna be awesome. So it's like, yeah, chase what Tom York is chasing, or, whatever that is. And you'll land somewhere that's
[00:16:58] Lucius: What is that?
[00:16:59] Aaron: your own thing. Yeah. Let, let me know if you find out.
[00:17:04] Michaela: So one of the things that I've always been curious about you guys is I mean you're going on almost 20 years of having Lucius right. And have known each other
[00:17:14] Lucius: 18. Almost. Yeah. 18.
in December, I guess yeah.
[00:17:19] Michaela: But you're also the best of friends in life outside of it. from the outside looking in, that's such a beautiful, amazing thing. how does that benefit working together and are there ever any times where you have to separate, like the fact that we have our deep personal friendship and that we're also like business partners in this way
And third tier because of that.
How do you guys then help support each other in the care that it takes to, I have a hard time with the word self-care, but like Helping each other with the self-care of making sure that you're healthy and aligned and able to do what you wanna do in life.
[00:18:01] Lucius: I think we've always been really good at, if you're in a place that you just need to stop or you need to do something, or I am in a place and, and I need support. We've been really good about being there for one another or allowing space for one another to figure that out.
Take the time to figure it out. Of course, like life just happens and a lot of times it's a moment and we just need to like have the moment and then it works itself out. Yeah, And I think like, it kind of works toward advantage sometimes because there's two of us, trying to lead this band and if one person's struggling, the other person can kinda like kick it into a little bit of a higher gear for that period of time and then vice versa. So that has served us really well, versus if we were just by ourselves. talking to a lot of friends who do it on their own I do feel really lucky that we have one another to encourage and motivate, at times. But also just to have that support, you know, like just to not be alone in this thing that's really complicated and challenging, also incredibly rewarding, but, not without major challenges. We don't have nine to five jobs.
[00:19:16] Michaela: Yeah. I think being a solo artist is really lonely, I spent a long time like really wishing I had a band and then came to the realization of oh, I don't actually wish I had a band, cuz I think I'm like a weird introverted extrovert and like, to be alone more than I recognize.
But then it's like, oh, but you need support. so to have that like other person, like you said, to kind of carry the weight when you're, Feeling like you're struggling a little bit and also just as someone to bear witness to everything together
[00:19:48] Lucius: And I think like we're different enough personalities that we have balance too. we. Balance each other out in a way, whereas I think if we were too similar it would be difficult. And the first, couple years when we were touring like relentlessly and dressing completely identically and sharing a room and everything, it was like, that was a, mind fuck at times.
Was like, where do I end and where does she begin? You know? Yeah. That was like, That was freaky, freaky man. But, um, no, I think like you learn and we have learned to take space and time and our schedule, and obviously with lockdown like we talked about before, I mean, that gives you perspective and Yeah.
And I think like when we're at home, you know, we do take space naturally. Like I have a relationship and I like my quality time with him. And Holly has, her son, so Obviously it takes a lot of time when she's home and, obviously we, cross over there too. But we get to, enjoy those things and then come back to our music. I do think there's more like coming in and out. A little more of a balance of like homework life Yeah. Than there's ever been. Yeah. also naturally, because we can't tour for huge.
periods of time when you have a kid, so I think it's been sort of a healthy adjustment.
Our manager probably doesn't like it, but, oh, wow.
[00:21:14] Aaron: He's probably chasing chickens in his backyard. So he's, he's got his
hands full.
[00:21:18] Lucius: How was your chunk of time away recently?
[00:21:21] Michaela: so I was gone for 12 days and that's the longest I've been away. And I, on one hand, loved it loved being alone. I was touring solo, chasing a bus, on a support tour. And the band that I was opening for, the wood brothers were like, are you okay?
Like, are you lonely? And I'm like, no, I'm having the best time. I love being alone. But then it also like, by the end of the time I was like, okay, this feels weird I have this dream of this child that exists out there.
And I'm like, no she's real. I have to get back. I have to get back
now. can you guys talk about that shift of bringing a child into the mix for me, I don't have a band that relies on me. my touring is really inconsistent. It's not like a huge, part of my income.
So bringing a childhood in the mix was like, whatever, I still just do what I want. I had some negative response from my agent at the time, which was really disheartening. It's not like it was a loss of income.
[00:22:19] Lucius: Right.
[00:22:20] Michaela: But in a way I feel like it does have healthier implications because it's crazy to be going on tour for four, six months at a time back to back.
Like it's really wild. And when you stop and take some time away and you're like, wait, who decided that this was the way that we have to do it? We've all been convinced. If you're not touring constantly, then you're not like a player out there basically. You're not like worth anybody's business or time,
[00:22:47] Lucius: A lot of our friends have families and tour with their families, tour without their families off and on. I mean, they figure it out. Sometimes you need help on the road, sometimes you don't. actually when Holly was pregnant, the first thing I said was, have a childhood friend, she's actually my oldest friend.
We've been friends since four years old, and she was a Waldorf teacher I knew she was leaving her job there. She's a candle maker. She lives in, Oregon. I was like, we should have Katie come out on the road with us. Because everybody already knows her, so it's not a new energy in the family.
And she's so good with kids. I mean, she's already a caretaker. And it ended up being like, her and our guitar player ended up falling in love. Oh my God.
So it ended up being perfect. Yeah. They got to play house on the road. Yeah. And uh, Yeah.
it was great. No, I mean, I, super lucked out. That everyone is so supportive.
Everyone. Oscar comes sometimes and other times not, but like when he comes, he's. A bunch of babysitters. I'm just like, here you go. You know? And everyone loves it and a good vibe. And it helps the dynamics, I think too. I mean, you can be grumpy when the baby's grumpy, that's for sure.
But you know levity, seriously, like babies really I mean, It just forces you to be present. Yeah. To not be bogged down in whatever other things you could potentially be bogged down with or in. and he's just so fun and funny and adorable and Yeah. He has 10 babysitters. and he's the center of attention. I mean, literally nothing. A baby wants more than that.
[00:24:26] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah, that's how we feel taking Georgia on the road. I feel pride as a parent because you show up to a venue and everybody, the venue's like really excited to see a kid and very welcoming and everybody's like super friendly. And I feel pride as a parent to like show that side of the world and humanity to my daughter.
Like, Look, there's a lot of love and acceptance and openness and like people are excited, to be able to Travel with her and show her all these different places and different experiences, but then to be able to have her in a community of people that are like really open and accepted and
[00:24:54] Michaela: excited, safe and loving.
Yeah. Yeah. We just did camo and
Are you, you, guys are doing it next year? Are you gonna
[00:25:00] Lucius: Yeah.
I was gonna ask you about that. How'd It go?
[00:25:03] Michaela: It was
[00:25:04] Aaron: great. I would say there is no kitty pool. Yeah. That's tough. Well, think Oscar at that point will be out of a diaper, right? He'll be
potty trained. Oh, you're good. He'll be fine. Solid. we were at the airport in Miami.
Once we got back wa I was walking down the hall with Georgia and somebody, he's like, hi Georgia. And I'm like, who is that? She had more friends on the boat than we did
[00:25:21] Michaela: So everybody like The boat staff, the production crew, the
fans, like
everyone knew Georgia.
[00:25:28] Lucius: Oh, that's awesome.
do. you make a vacation of It, anyways? Might as well you're going
to the Caribbean. Okay. How much time
Is spent off the boat?
[00:25:37] Aaron: it was two days. Two days.
[00:25:38] Lucius: Oh wow. Nice.
[00:25:39] Aaron: were back to back. So it's basically, two days out in the middle of the ocean, see land, all of
that, which was Yeah. Making music. and then it's two days back to back at two different islands. At least this year it was, I think it's a little bit different every year, but they, basically, split up like that.
And that's the schedule that they use every year. And I will say like sixth man, the production company that puts it on, they're amazing and like, so helpful and like talk. Having 10 babysitters. We had like 20 babysitters. Like they would fight over holding Georgia and carrying her around, and they were like, would go
[00:26:08] Michaela: so accommodating, hang out in the office.
That was her favorite place. the band Joseph brought like their parents, their siblings and their sibling partner and their, their little niece. Like, and it was, it was so fun.
[00:26:21] Aaron: and, uh, yeah. Yeah. Right. I Brady Blade brought his wife and his four kids, three kids, three kids from Sweden Yeah. So it's, It was a really great experience we've never been on a week long festival where you literally can't go anywhere else, you know? but it was great, you get to actually like, See friends and catch up with friends and make, legitimate new friends,
[00:26:43] Michaela: And not be in a new place
[00:26:44] Aaron: every day.
And like right at the point that you're like, wow, cool. We've been on a floating hotel for a few days. You get off and you're on this beautiful island in the Caribbean and you can go and do your own thing
[00:26:53] Lucius: Oh, that's cool. Do, do you feel any seasickness?
[00:26:56] Aaron: some people do,
[00:26:57] Michaela: I didn't, yeah, I didn't either.
[00:26:59] Aaron: That's the weird thing, like getting home and you're walking down the hallway and you're like, whoa.
[00:27:03] Lucius: boats, I get woozy on boats, but I haven't been on a big boat, so I don't know I'm gonna get that or not. Anytime you've been on a boat, do you get sick? Pretty much. I don't actually. Sick. Sick, because sometimes the big boats are worse a little
[00:27:17] Aaron: Either end like the front and the back move a lot, but in the middle it kinda it's like you're on the subway though.
Yeah. It's like the sub I was just gonna say, it's like being on the train.
[00:27:28] Michaela: Yeah. and the, bracelets with the
pressure point. Mm-hmm.
[00:27:31] Aaron: they're really fast with all of that too. We were about to go on and Lauren mentioned something about just feeling off, like not feeling bad. She's like, I just kinda feel off and somebody showed up with a trench coat of like, I've got this and I've got this. And like, what else do you need?
Here are bands here, ginger choose, like immediately. I had a
[00:27:46] Lucius: Okay.
I think you'll be fine. Yeah, I'm excited. I've never been on a cruise. Yeah. Me neither.
[00:27:51] Michaela: It's fun. I got covid though, so just try not to
get covid.
[00:27:55] Aaron: the last day,
[00:27:56] Lucius: so last day it could have been worse. It was rough. I still haven't gotten yet. what? Wow.
far as I know.
we take tests all the time for the last few years, like constantly. So, and you've been around people that have had it, so it's very strange. Yeah.
I mean, Holly's had it twice. Uh, No, I had just once, but Oscar had it twice.
Twice. Andy had it Once, Yeah.
Okay.
[00:28:17] Michaela: It's a mysterious
[00:28:18] Aaron: thing. Like when Mikayla got it, I assumed that Georgia had it too. Like she was sleepless. Few nights, chest fevers and fevers, and we thought like, oh, it was out being in the sun or something. And then Mikayla tested positive, but I, I never got it.
Not recommended to get covid on a cruise ship. you definitely get treated like a leper
[00:28:33] Michaela: and Yeah, like security, clearing the hallway. There's like a ghostbuster. Backpack wearing, dude, like disinfecting the air behind me. I had to put my food in like a toxic waste bag.
[00:28:46] Lucius: No. Geez. Oh no. Isn't most everything like open air?
[00:28:51] Michaela: No,
[00:28:52] Aaron: it was way more like being in a giant hotel than I thought it was gonna be. Or like a
[00:28:55] Michaela: casino.
[00:28:56] Aaron: I mean, There is legitimately a casino on the boat
[00:28:58] Lucius: That's
exciting. are the concerts outside or both?
[00:29:02] Aaron: some
[00:29:02] Lucius: some
Okay.
[00:29:03] Michaela: they're inside and outside.
[00:29:04] Lucius: I mean, It's gotta be wild, playing a show and looking at the ocean while you're moving in it.
[00:29:09] Aaron: Yeah. it's weird being on stage and having it move. you know, at least like sitting at
the drums like
[00:29:14] Lucius: Maybe. No, maybe no
[00:29:15] Aaron: moving
[00:29:16] Lucius: platforms.
feet for that.
[00:29:17] Michaela: Okay. Back to
[00:29:19] Lucius: Okay.
[00:29:20] Michaela: was a lot
[00:29:21] Lucius: tangent.
[00:29:23] Aaron: Maybe we can get sixth man to sponsor this episode. Yeah. Cause that's quite the pitch
[00:29:27] Michaela: we're
[00:29:27] Lucius: promoting camo.
[00:29:31] Michaela: Okay. So besides taking space especially because we were talking about like you guys not only. Write and perform and record your music and tour and collaborate with other people. But the visual aspect, as you mentioned, Holly has from early days been a huge part of your artistry, your costumes, your hair, your makeup the videos, the pictures.
all the different layers of your artistic expression and all of the energy that it takes to do all of that. besides just taking space and recharging in your personal lives, any tools or things that you guys have found over the years that have been helpful that you've needed?
Maybe you haven't needed anything but things that have helped rejuvenate and re-energize you guys to have that.
[00:30:18] Lucius: Sleep. good sleep. I mean, I sound like a old lady, but I cannot function properly without it. And a lot of water. I mean, When you say that up my mind, it's like thinking about like nature and hiking and like doing things to refresh, but then I'm like, I don't usually have time to do those things, so I'm like, Hmm. I think about it?
It's taking nature walk in my mind. no, I mean, I. Like To walk around in nature. When I have time. I think that's rejuvenating. You were doing meditation for a while. Yeah. I think space, I really think all senses of that word. Yeah. Just taking some time to tend to your home.
Yeah. Be in your own space. Reset, get a good night's sleep, wake up, like just not have to be on a schedule. a work schedule I should say. So that you return to it with a fresh head. Yeah. You know, actually have the capacity to, focus. I think things that like ground you in the home.
I remember the first couple years of touring thinking all I wanna do is like plant a seed and watch it grow into a flower. That's like, all I wanna do is be somewhere long enough to like, see that happen, you know? Mm-hmm. Because we were just like in a new place constantly, every day. so I think things like that, like gardening or cooking or like very just normal, mundane kind of things feel really re-energizing or regrounding, when you're
[00:31:50] Aaron: Yeah, absolutely. we had a conversation with the mill carton kids and Kenneth, said it, very literally. But then also, figuratively the idea of unpacking your suitcase as soon as you get home from tour. Like literally that feels nice. But then also like figuratively of yeah, grounding yourself and like put to aside and like be home like as quickly as you can get into like just home life and how grounding and rejuvenating, resetting that is
[00:32:14] Lucius: last weekend we went somewhere and I, I was like, I'm really glad I didn't unpack my suitcase. Cause I don't have to pack now cuz we were done the previous weekend. Oh yeah. Yeah. you just took the same suitcase? Yeah. I swapped out a couple things, but.
Yeah. if we're gonna be in a place for several days, I do love the suitcase so that at least like hotel feels like home. As much as it can.
But Yeah.
once I'm home it is hard to unpack right away. Yeah, Cause I just wanna, I don't wanna deal with it. Lay on my bed. yeah,
Yeah, yeah, yeah. like sleeping at home.
[00:32:49] Michaela: I know. It's so nice. One thing that I feel like is not talked about a lot in public for artists is the behind the scenes relationships that can really like, make or break careers.
I think, you know, having the right team behind you, and just how disruptive it is if you have to change those relationships, start a new relationship, recover from a breakup with managers, labels, agents, all of that stuff. And how so much of that is really vital of keeping consistency to build your actual career.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you guys have had the same manager agent label basically since the beginning.
[00:33:32] Lucius: The label we've parted.
Yeah.
But yeah. Yeah. I started with our booking agent. He introduced us to our manager our booking agent. We met south by like 2010. 10, something a long time ago. Yeah. And then Ben, our manager, has been with At very end of 2012. Yeah. yeah, 11 years.
[00:33:54] Michaela: Can you guys talk a little bit for people especially who don't know the ins and outs of like those types of relationships, how important it is, how those have grown, if there's been growing pains,
[00:34:04] Lucius: Totally. There's growing pains with any relationship. as you grow and evolve, you are always considering every part of what it is that you do and who's a part of your team and all that. But man, it speaks to loyalty. Mm-hmm. Like on both ends, you know, we've committed to them and they've committed to us, and I know that they have our backs.
Like there's almost no one except ourselves that cares as deeply about our success, as they do. You know, Like truly have devoted big part of their lives to our dream. Pretty incredible. Yeah. And trust, I know that if something ever happened, I trust completely that they are there to support us. I know Ben is he's our guy. Like, I don't have to think about it. Yeah. it is irreplaceable. It feels good to be able to say that in this business, cuz I feel like it's not always The.
case.
Yeah. when you work that long with someone and you develop such a familiarity and a f we, we are family. We are family. Sorry.
[00:35:11] Aaron: You had mentioned trust and that makes sense to me, especially like from your agent. you guys were backing up Roger Waters for a few years,
That takes trust on your agent's part to be like, okay, because you guys had a bunch happening on the, band front, you know, to then be like, we're gonna tour with this artist, so sorry, you agent aren't really gonna have much to do
for a while
for them to trust and believe in you on that.
[00:35:36] Lucius: I mean,
We were touring Lucius in between, but Yeah. And not to mention. Then pandemic struck us. Yeah. And so, it was a double whammy for everyone. So I mean, I can't speak enough to the level of like, support we feel, and, we have each other's
[00:35:57] Aaron: does having that longevity in those two,
key relationships, your agent and your manager. Have you found that has any influence on what you guys have created?
[00:36:08] Lucius: we have very big ideas. You go out with Roger Waters for a couple years and you're bound to come back with so many ideas that are just impossible to achieve without so much money. Yeah. so they keep us grounded, um, most of the time. Yeah. Of course we all make mistakes and Yeah. Want to try something and it's some, doesn't always work out or doesn't end up paying off, so to speak. But, usually, you know, they're, they just keep us in check. With our grand ideas. Yeah. They, they reel us in a little bit, which we need sometimes. And other times like, you know, I. They trust in us always having a vision for something. And, we have been very lucky that there's always been this like, creative Spring. We haven't had like severe writer's block or creative sort of, blockage. we've always just been able to come up with a new idea, a new landscape, a new, it's almost like a, the new show, the new world.
We want everything to exist in, and I think that helps really motivate everything, more tours, more songs, more collaborations, more whatever, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:37:18] Michaela: Definitely. I think there's an element of when you know that your system is in place and you're supported, it also then, Relieve so much energy and head space to be able to keep on that creative wellspring versus if you're like, okay, I have these ideas for a tour, but I don't quite know how it's gonna actually happen because I don't have an agent who's a good partner which I think a lot of people, including musicians and artists who are maybe just starting out, don't quite understand all of the wheels that have to be turning
At the same time to keep the machine of your business growing.
But also that contributes to you being able to have the head space to create
[00:38:02] Lucius: Yeah.
[00:38:02] Michaela: So that you don't have to be thinking. Oh, do I have to book my own tour and how's this gonna work? Or how am I gonna get the word out about my stuff if I have all these great ideas, but I have no other support system
[00:38:14] Lucius: Right.
[00:38:15] Michaela: Gonna help that,
[00:38:16] Lucius: people have to be business people now, much more than they did, back in the day. And not everyone's a business person. Some people are just artists and it's like you struggle if you're not business minded today, cuz you have to be served on top of everything and so much access to everything. So everybody's their yeah. Their own entrepreneur. And, And if you don't have your social media figured out, God
[00:38:40] Michaela: If you're not good at marketing and social media and visuals and
[00:38:43] Lucius: Yeah. That's like 90% of it. Now
[00:38:46] Michaela: Yeah.
[00:38:48] Lucius: we keep calling it Tic Tac
[00:38:52] Michaela: there's that Adele quote where she's like, tka taco, what? Like, I told Erin this last tour that I was on, the first morning I woke up after the first show and I had so much energy and I was like, yes, I'm gonna make a reel about what it's like to be on tour solo. And I like started taking videos of myself.
And then by day two, I was so tired because the shows end so late and I go to bed at like two in the morning and I still wake up at 7:00 AM I was like, fuck this, I have no time for anything. I'm not doing that. And I have like a few sad videos of me. Like, I be like, I'm waking up in a hotel and now I'm running.
And the other part of me is like, this is so dumb, but this is what the algorithm likes. But I don't wanna do this. I
[00:39:35] Lucius: know,
[00:39:36] Michaela: and sing songs.
[00:39:37] Lucius: I know
[00:39:39] Aaron: it's so
time consuming, you know?
[00:39:41] Lucius: to time consuming and then like it's very hard to just record a video and be fine with that being the thing, regardless of what it is. Yeah.
Because then you're like watching yourself. You're like, this is stupid. Why would I post this? Yeah.
I wouldn't wanna watch this. People are like, don't take it seriously. Just like, take whatever. I mean, People just look at it for a second and then the, yeah, we, it's over.
So then it's so then why do it? we've been like raiding salsa in our um, dressing room, chips, salsa. We did a series,
[00:40:09] Michaela: I know it's a silly world we live in, hence why we are trying to do this podcast to contribute some like substance and things that we feel like, our friends and our community of musicians have so much to say, but it feels like we're so consumed with having to kind of fit within this, Very easily digestible, like junk food thing to get, some attention or something. So anyways, we're about at our time. So we can wrap up. But thank you guys so much
anything that on these topics that you feel like we didn't cover that you would like to just share?
[00:40:47] Lucius: No, I just felt bad that there were so many animal distractions.
Come here.
[00:40:53] Michaela: Now they won't come
[00:40:54] Lucius: Minnie and Turtle and Marcel. I don't
know Marc
to himself. Yeah. Come here. Hey Minnie. Oh, you're heavy. Okay. There we go. Hi, Hey, bye.