Sierra Hull is the definition of child prodigy - she made her Grand Ole Opry debut at 10, played Carnegie Hall at 12, and signed her first record deal at 13. She has since gone on to become the first woman to win IBMA Mandolinist of the year (3x in a row), be nominated for a Grammy, perform with Garth Brooks, Indigo Girls, and Allison Krauss and Gillian Welch, and perform at the White House. We chat with Sierra about growing up learning on stage with people 3x her age, the contrast of then studying at Berklee on a full scholarship, to using disappointments as fuel, the power of seeing women represented on album covers and in the press, and a whole lot more.
Sierra Hull is the definition of child prodigy - she made her Grand Ole Opry debut at 10, played Carnegie Hall at 12, and signed her first record deal at 13. She has since gone on to become the first woman to win IBMA Mandolinist of the year (3x in a row), be nominated for a Grammy, perform with Garth Brooks, Indigo Girls, and Allison Krauss and Gillian Welch, and perform at the White House. We chat with Sierra about growing up learning on stage with people 3x her age, the contrast of then studying at Berklee on a full scholarship, to using disappointments as fuel, the power of seeing women represented on album covers and in the press, and a whole lot more.
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Hi and welcome to the 50th episode of the Other 22 Hours podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:13] Michaela: And I'm your host, Michaela Anne, and this is the second year of our podcast. So we're so happy to be back. And thank you for being here with us. If you've been from the beginning, amazing. If this is your first time checking us out,
[00:00:24] Aaron: welcome.
Yeah, we are keenly aware that we couldn't get to 50 episodes without you guys here in any kind of way that's not extremely lame. So with that, we have a simple ask for you choose your own adventure, three different options. The easiest and fastest way is to just click subscribe or follow whatever it's called on your listening platform of choice.
It's a great way to let the algorithm know that our show is worth putting in front of other people. The second one, if you have heard episodes before, is to take your favorite episode and pass it along to somebody that doesn't know what we do, that might enjoy it. And then lastly, if you want to directly support what we're doing here, we have a community over on Patreon that we're really excited about.
And you get the normal things like behind the scenes content, exclusive content, we have a great discussion going on over there, we announce our guests early, so it gives our community the chance to present questions that we will ask our guests during the show. And if you're interested, you can learn more at the link in the show notes below here or at TheOther22Hours.
com slash Patreon.
[00:01:29] Michaela: And we are not music journalists, we are musicians ourselves. So we feel like because of that, we're able to go to some more personal and really interesting places in these conversations. Based on the shared experiences and honest realities of building a lifelong career around your art.
[00:01:47] Aaron: And one of those honest realities is that there is so much that is just outside of our control and all of this. And so we like to focus on the things that are within our control, like our routines, our headspace, our habits, and we've distilled that down to a Question that kind of underpins every episode without asking directly and that is what do you do to create sustainability in your life?
so that you can sustain your creativity We asked that question today of Sierra Hull.
[00:02:15] Michaela: Sierra Hole is basically one of the youngest bluegrass legends out there. She started picking up the mandolin at age 8, signing first record deal at 13, and before her 20s she had already performed the White House, in Carnegie Hall, at the Grand Ole Opry.
She's performed with All of the bluegrass legends, Alison Krauss Ron Block, Sam Bush, Del McCoury she has quite a long resume and as you would imagine, achieving so much at such a young age is an interesting experience and she was so generous in sharing what some of those highs and lows are and how to keep the inspiration and keep on the path of creating music for the love of music.
[00:03:00] Aaron: Yeah. One thing that I love about bluegrass culture or roots music culture, especially down here in the South, being a born and raised Mainer is how much. is just a part of life, right off the bat in the episode Sierra's talking about how her grandmother and her parents and her great aunt like all just sang around the house and sang at church and it wasn't anything none of them wanted to be on stage.
It's just what they did and it was part of life and that's a really beautiful approach to life from somebody that has spent too many years in very traditional music schooling. But with that comes this kind of groundedness in her viewpoint of what's going on and her approach to everything That I felt really intriguing and really inspiring like Michaela said she's really generous with a lot of her experiences and her wisdom here And so we're gonna stop babbling and without further ado.
Here's our conversation with Sierra Hall
[00:03:51] Sierra: Well, Thank you so much for being into doing this. We are excited to talk to you because, like Aaron said, we've done 50 episodes. And a lot of our guests have been kind of in the Americana world
[00:04:03] Michaela: We've had a couple of film composers and jazz musicians But I was like, have we had a bluegrass musician? And then uh, remember that we had Alice Gerard.
[00:04:12] Aaron: so
both ends of the spectrum, you and Alice Gerard
[00:04:15] Sierra: I love it. Hey, that's awesome. Well, That's good company to be in my book. So that's awesome.
[00:04:21] Michaela: I know Jimmy kind of filled you in on the premise of this podcast of We're not going deep on like what was your inspiration for your record?
we're talking about like how you take care of yourself and stay connected to your creativity Sanity. Yeah, sanity and humanity while doing this for a lifetime. And you are definitely started the youngest. You had your first record deal at 13.
[00:04:44] Sierra: Yeah I'm getting old now girl, you know, getting old now that felt like a long time ago, but yeah
[00:04:52] Michaela: So, I mean, I guess just to jump. into the deep end. I'm so curious because a lot of what we talk about is maybe not all of us, but some of us have challenge of honoring and nurturing our identity outside of music, especially outside of our attachment to our quote unquote success or how we are received or perceived within the music world also, bluegrass to me, from the outside looking in, feels like such like a way of life beyond just I play music and I'm building a career.
can you speak to that? Has that ever come into play for you? Any kind of identity observations or challenges or maybe not challenges at all?
[00:05:32] Sierra: Yeah, it is a little bizarre I must say because your words a way of life I mean, I feel like that's kind of how I got into music To start with is because, I'm from here in Tennessee. Originally I grew up two hours northeast of here up near the Kentucky line, a little tiny town, no red light, less than a thousand people.
Everybody knows everybody. I grew up singing in church and everybody from, I always say my mom to my granny to her sister, my great aunt, like everybody just kind of. weren't trying to be on a stage. I mean, no real performers in my family or anything, but music was kind of always around.
My dad has always had a deep love of different kinds of music, my parents are pretty young. So like eighties rock and like, trad bluegrass, you know, it was like a big range of, things that they like to listen to. so my, great uncle, my granny's brother in law the great aunt I was speaking of there. So her husband played mandolin and fiddle and guitar and was just self taught wasn't some virtuosic musician, but was always had an instrument in his hand, you know, playing songs like wildwood flower on the guitar, or just old hymns, church songs, you know? so my parents built a house right next to them. just before I was born. so I grew up with them right there. So they were kind of like a second set of grandparents. So the instruments were familiar to me, always hearing, you know, mandolin, fiddle, guitar. My dad eventually brought a guitar, one of the juniors guitars down to our house and he started learning to play some chords.
And my brother and I would just sing together in church and my dad would play guitar as we did. So it was really only when I was probably about seven that my dad At some point, like brought a banjo home and like was trying to get my brother interested in, bluegrass. dad got bit by the bluegrass bug and started going to some of these jams, you know, within 30, 40 minutes of our house on the weekends.
And so eventually he taught me a song on the mandolin and I just kind of fell in love with that. So really like the idea of music has always just felt. So a part of who I am when we talk about identity and like, starting so young career wise to this is all I've ever known, it's the only job I've ever had.
And like, what a gift and a blessing to have that. But also it was something I knew I wanted from the time I was probably like. Eight or nine years old. When I started, don't really remember a time where I didn't think is what I want and this is what my life is going to be for better, for worse, they say, if you can quit, you should.
I've always felt this is all I've got. So I better like work hard and try to. You know make the most of it. So yeah, I do think as you Mature and you grow older and you start to recognize The need to have an identity outside of that while at the same time feeling like so much of who I am and what my whole life has been about has also been wrapped up in this thing You know to choose the thing you love so much to be passionate about.
Takes so much of yourself to invest into doing this as a career and, the sort of emotional roller coaster one goes on. The highs are really high and the lows are real low, you know, so, and I think we all experienced that to various degrees, whether you're, somebody, 100 times more successful than I am or people who are just starting out.
It's there's that wave. And I think that's Understanding that and come into peace with that a little bit and kind of learning to navigate that when you start thinking about having something in your career, feel like it's not going well, doesn't make you worthless human, having something really great happen doesn't make you suddenly super cool.
You know, it's a weird thing that you have to kind of balance and especially in the day that we live in where You know everything's on social media and there's this Need to constantly be giving ourselves to the thing that we chosen as a career. So that's a very long winded answer
[00:09:10] Aaron: I can vividly remember when I was like, oh no, I want to be a musician for the rest of my life. you know, 12 or something like that. Like, music was part of my life there was always instruments around the house.
My parents weren't musicians or anything, but there's always instruments around and I would play around and mess around with them. And, you know, as soon as there was like an opportunity to be in the band in school or, play at Sweet Home Alabama in my basement with my neighbor for like an hour straight, I was into it, but I definitely remember it being like.
When I grow up, I want to do this. growing up in Maine, there wasn't a lot of opportunities. I toured like as much as I could, which was like in a really weird kind of jazz fusion trio in a Subaru out back to like various. Brick oven pizza places in Maine playing to people who just happen to be there not wanting to be there, you know And so it was always this separation and I feel like I'm still working to be like, oh no This is what I'm doing with my life, Rather than this is my life a very weird way as we sit here in my recording studio at my house like, Simultaneously, like a hard thing for me to wrap my head around this idea that it's just always been a thing. And also there's a little bit of like envy growing up in Maine, like coming down here and being in this culture down here and being at like a bunch of bluegrass parties where everybody's picking.
And just like the musicianship and the personality in people that just grow up making this music and it's not necessarily something that's like studies just like we just we sing with it my my family Sings and we sing in church and we sing at home and it's just like what we do is so real and so Intoxicating to me as an outsider to that
[00:10:40] Sierra: and in a small town, I mean, I didn't, we didn't have like, a jazz program at school. We didn't have some Suzuki teacher, close by or anything like that. It was, very much you're sitting in mom's lap at four years old and she's like teaching you a little song and then you might go to, the local jam and start hearing like people in a circle play the music, you know, and they become your friends, you know, people three times my age, all these, older guys that welcomed me in and I always say that was as much of what made me want to do it as the music itself was the community, so when we talk about The music being part of it as a way of life, but also just these people that that's who they are and where they've come from, you know, being people that have played the music their whole lives, you know welcoming a Eight year old girl into the circle to say sure join us, you know I feel really really fortunate to have grown up so close to that kind of culture and atmosphere because I do think at the end of the day Bluegrass is home base for me, but that community is a really special community to have been fortunate enough to grow up in.
[00:11:39] Michaela: it's so interesting how our relationship to music is so informed by these outside things like I grew up in a military family like not surrounded by musicians and it was kind of always this outside thing like, that you aspire to. And I didn't really know anything existed out of pop stardom.
And it was a long winding road of figuring out how do you do this? And I'll never forget, we met in jazz conservatory in New York city and jazz school was pretty brutal.
[00:12:05] Aaron: like whiplash might as well be a documentary. Yeah.
[00:12:07] Michaela: It was very much like Oh, you think you can play come on stage and like, we're going to try and embarrass you it felt very like, let's see your chops. And as a singer, it was very clearly like, singers aren't musicians. So it was very dismissive and felt very demoralizing.
I thought I hated music after being at jazz school. And then I discovered Michael Daves. Do you know Michael
[00:12:31] Sierra: Yeah, of course. Good buddy.
[00:12:32] Michaela: I just heard a girl talking about him in the hallway that she was taking private lessons from a bluegrass guitarist and I was like, what? You can do that and the school will pay for it?
And so I called up Michael Daves and started taking lessons from him. Aaron did. As well, and Michael taught me how to play guitar, he was hugely informative in my life and introduced me to the New York bluegrass scene and I was like, wait a second, you show up at a jam and everyone just assumes that you play like it was like, Oh, what do you pick?
What do you pick? Come on in, not sizing you up. And it just immediately was like, Oh, this is nice. And based on the assumption that everybody plays music, because again, it's a way of
[00:13:11] Sierra: you go to a festival, it's half the audience is there, to see some music, but I swear they're just is there to get ready for all the music to be over so they can go back to the campground and jam, you know, and I know people that go to festivals and might watch a show on the main stage, but man, they're there to pick.
They want to. You know, See their buddies and jam. And I lived for it as a kid. like you said, everybody just playing something, whether you're just starting or, or you've been doing it a long time, it's a nice thing to just have kind of that shared community where everybody's, excited to be there and excited to get to share this experience together.
And, nine times out of I would say a very welcoming, positive experience for most people.
[00:13:51] Aaron: Can you talk about your experience coming from this scene, coming from this upbringing, very communal, very open how was it going to Berkeley coming from that? did you find the path kind of continued or was it jarring? What was your experience
[00:14:04] Sierra: I was scared to death because I wasn't planning on going to music school. it's the other side of the coin where you grew up in a community like that, that doesn't talk about. the technicalities of the music. I think people do more now, the younger generation and it's the day and age of everything on the internet and schools like Berkeley being, more established with having a roots program and things like that.
But like, I just wanted to, go on tour and make records. That was what I wanted to do. And so I had made my first album when I was in high school. And in my mind, I was just like, I'm finally going to not be a student, graduate and hit the road start building a career in that regard.
But when I was a sophomore, someone from Berkeley reached out and said, Hey, we saw this video of you playing. And if you're considering music school, we hope you'll come here and we can guarantee you a full tuition. And so I was just like, man that's really cool.
But in a way, even then I didn't know what Berkeley was. It's embarrassing to even say it, coming from a, small town like, my parents don't have a college education. Actually like, until, my cousins and I, our generation no one in my family on either side really had been to college, you know?
It's just, like, a bunch of Appalachian royal people who, work hard and, you know, like it's not that school wasn't encouraged. I mean, My parents always wanted me to make good grades and stuff, but it wasn't like we expect you to go to college, you know, nor did they have the money to send me, so it was kind of like, all right.
This opportunity is here and maybe I need to think about this, but in a way it was kind of more like, well, that's really nice that I got this offer from Berkeley, wherever, whatever the school is. But I didn't think much about it and I was lucky enough to meet probably my biggest hero, actually Alison Krauss at a pretty young age and get to know her and work with her quite a bit.
And I remember kind of just mentioning. Something about Berkeley to her and she was like, Oh, Berkeley, that's an amazing school. Like I've been up there. I know some of the folks up there and she was like, you should go check it out. and I remember thinking well, okay, she said your career is still going to be here.
It's not going anywhere. You could always go for a year and if it sucks, come home, you know? And so I thought, man, and I went up there and I visited the school I didn't quite realize that I was doing an audition for, you know, cause they had said well, you could have full tuition, but they told me about this thing called a presidential award and that was a scholarship that included room and board as well, like food and all that.
So I remember thinking, gosh, There's no way I'll get that. There's absolutely no way that I'll get the Presidential Award. There's way too many talented people. But if for some crazy chance I got that, then maybe I'd just have to do it. Cause I might just be dumb to turn down such an obvious opportunity that's like, right here.
And Sure enough, the Presidential Award rolled around, and I didn't think I was gonna start when I did, but I ended up starting that fall, and my Berkeley experience was different in that I already had a tour planned, because I wasn't planning on going. There was a bunch of dates, but the school was just at the cusp of starting the American Roots program, which was part, I think, of why they were wanting me to come to school there.
they couldn't have been more supportive. I mean, In my mind, I thought I'm from this tiny little town in Birdstown, Tennessee, where I have teachers who have known about me playing music from the time I've been in third grade. And I went up to my teacher and was like, look at my calluses.
I'm learning to play mandolin, you know, and got to play for my classmates. And like they'd always, it's just this beautiful, supportive environment to grow up in. So of course, if I had an opportunity to like go, record my album when I did or maybe need to miss school a day or two here and there. My teachers were always so supportive and allowed me out of school and things like that so long as I could get caught up.
But I thought, I'm gonna go to college and I'm gonna be like, a tiny little fish in a big pond and nobody's gonna care. But they honestly much to my surprise, were so supportive. Really had a much deeper understanding of bluegrass and the community that I was coming from than I thought because in my mind I just was like Oh, man, I'm just probably not gonna fit in here.
Like, I have no actual background, and I'd never read music. nobody said, oh, here's the first inversion of a G chord. Nobody talks about that stuff when you're growing up in bluegrass. They just don't. watch and learn, kid. Join our jam. Learn a thousand fiddle tunes.
You sing harmony because that's what we do. You just learn to do it. And there's no discussion of it. Nobody tells you to warm up on arpeggios. for better or for worse, people get it out and just try to start shredding. There was a lot about going into that experience that definitely felt.
Oh, my gosh I'm a bit from a different world and it's like a bit overwhelming, but exciting to
So yeah, when people ask me about Berkeley, I'm kind of like, it was awesome. Very intimidating. I feel like a lot of what I was working on went way over my head at the time.
Cause I just was like, ah, trying to keep up. But was so fortunate to have a real strong support system there with the school, trying to make it something that I could experience, if that makes sense. Coming from where I come from, and I'm so grateful for that. it set me up to go, Oh, here's all this stuff that I hadn't thought about, that's been thrown at me in a very short amount of time.
Maybe 10 percent of which I'm going to walk away actually making sense of. And then so much of it has caught up to me over the years since, you know, as I grow as a musician still,
[00:19:13] Aaron: experience too. Cause I went school for the last two years of high school. I went to a boarding school and then I went to four years of conservatory in New York the art school that I went to is classical orchestral based. And then I went to jazz school.
And it's still to this day, it's been, like a decade since we graduated from more than that. Oh, and I still like, you know, there's still things that like will pop up all of a sudden. I'm like, Oh, that's what they were saying. Oh, that's what that means. Okay, I
[00:19:40] Sierra: Yeah. And it's very exciting when you have those moments like, Hey, wait a minute,
[00:19:45] Aaron: Yeah. Hey, check this
[00:19:46] Sierra: yeah,
it's. so much stuff. So much ear training and like modes and stuff. I teach a lot of music and when people ask me certain things and I'm like, Okay. I'm like, Okay. I did know this at one time because I was well versed in jazz school, and now I have to go back and study it to be able to teach you, but, yeah.
you know, you learn a lot through teaching and teaching has taught me a lot in that regard, too, where you go back to the drawing board and think about things in order to explain them. But also, I think that there's a beautiful thing about also understanding that there's a lot of music being made out there by people who you can learn a lot.
Without always having the vocabulary to put behind it, and I think the vocabulary is important, but there's a lot of people who have vocabulary, but don't necessarily have the heart and soul of making music to like, do that side of things, you know, I think people sometimes go Oh, she went to berkeley So she just must be some like whiz and i'm thinking lord No I mean the guys in my band could talk to you about the theory side of things like a thousand times faster and quicker than I can and if you put a piece of music in front of me Like I kind of schlep through it a little bit I'm much further along than I was once upon a time, but I'm still at the heart of it the bluegrass kid who just learned to play by ear and, has learned to navigate my musical world that way.
growing up not playing with drums or not playing with horn players or certain instruments, funny. I've toured with drums in my band the last few years. And do you know Mark Radabaugh, by chance? Yeah.
[00:21:08] Aaron: a good
[00:21:09] Sierra: Yeah. So Mark's, an incredible player and also one of those guys who ends up playing a lot with us acoustic players
[00:21:15] Aaron: It's funny because like I mentioned, the string bands used to call me to play. And once Mark moved up here from Atlanta, like more full time, I was moving into being in the studio more. So I was like, Oh, you should call Mark, like call Mark. And nobody calls me and everybody calls Mark.
So it's, you're welcome, Mark.
[00:21:28] Sierra: Yeah, that's hilarious. but I always laugh, we were rehearsing the other day and I'm, asking him to change something, but I'm still, I always laugh. I'm like, look, Mark, you know, I don't speak drummer speak, you know, just like this thing, like whatever done the symbol like, can you just change that?
me something lower or like little quieter or like whatever, you know, it's so those guys are good about putting up with my very organic way of discussing music, I guess you could say. But I think there's a lot of different ways to do it. But having the vocabulary is a beautiful thing too, does make the communication and, the ease of things sometimes a lot, a easier to um, navigate.
[00:22:01] Michaela: I think that's what's so beautiful about music, though, is it also can be perplexing because there's so many different ways to understand it and communicate it. And therefore I feel like you. We want to be able to easily put people in boxes, but you can't do that with music because someone might be a virtuosic player who can hear something and be able to play it easily and not know.
At all what they're playing or be able to read any music and that doesn't mean that they're less of a musician or on the flip side, someone might be able to really understand the technical theoretical aspect, but like their ear doesn't work as well. And it's just all these different ways of understanding the same language and also as someone who teaches a lot, I feel like I get insight into all the different ways our brains work. then the physicality of it. my first instrument was piano, but I'm not super practiced, so I can read music really well, but I don't have the physical facility that I used to have of being able to like actually play at the level that I could, read it. And so there's all those different little things of like the way that our mind naturally works, how it's nurtured, and then like how we develop it and feed it. And I think, like you said, being really open and not determining like any judgment of it, what's better.
[00:23:20] Sierra: Oh my gosh. It's funny. I play a lot with Bela Fleck. he says, there's a joke in the Flecktones between like him and Victor Wooten, you know, cause they play a lot of songs and crazy time signatures. A lot of tunes or things like that, that I've written that wind up having maybe crazy time signature things.
But I've usually just written it cause I'm like, Oh, this kind of sounds cool or this feels good to play. And then it's kind of like figuring it out on the post. It's not like I'm going, yeah, bro. And this one sections in seven and then we're going to drop into like three, four here. It's like my brain isn't thinking that way.
It thinks like music first, what feels good, what sounds good. sometimes then I'm like. Piecing it together to understand like how to tell the band or the bands like, on the flip side, helping me figure out whatever it is by being like, Oh, it's this thing.
And then Mark's like, well, actually there's like a beat of five there. I'm like, okay, cool. There's a beat of five there. sometimes that can mean people can count things differently. If you're a counter, cool. sometimes I'm like.
I can through necessity sometimes and as you get into like harder things to play, sometimes it's inevitable. You gotta get your count on, but like, that's not The first way that I think about music, like oftentimes if there's like a musical riff or something that I can tie into, I think more melodically rhythmic, if that makes sense, then more like numerical rhythmics,
listen, I'm even, talking about this funny, my rhythmics, you know, but the joke is, and so we've kind of adapted that in my band too.
It's like, It don't matter how you count it. No judgment on how anybody counts anything or fills anything so long as you can play it. If you can get through it and you can learn it this way and it's faster for you to count this one bar, in fast bars or somebody wants to separate it, in slow bars or like whatever it is.
At the end of the day, our goal is to be able to play this thing and make it sound good and tight and musical, so like, no judgment there, so that's kind of the Bela, Bela theory they have, so I'm like, okay, alright.
[00:25:06] Aaron: love that. I Also think of rhythms as melodies and that kind of came to me. in college, my sight reading teacher for light drums was insane, and he was the kind of person that's like, oh, there's 24 hours in the day, so you can definitely practice for 23 of them, right?
Um, And, you know, the things that we had to sight read were insane, and that was like, very much counting like, your brain is steaming, because it's like your final, and it's half of your grade to read this insane thing like, they put a piece of sheet music on a bug zapper, and all these flies stuck to it, and you had to read that.
But I was in this, class, it was like the Middle Eastern Ensemble. And so we played like a lot of Turkish music and Syrian music on the page is like really complex rhythms and really complex time standards, just changing all the time.
And the way the teacher who was Israeli explained growing up with this music was hearing it rhythmically and hearing it like various ways. you know, and being able to convey that. And that just made way more sense to me, and it felt more musical and more fluid.
[00:26:02] Sierra: Totally.
[00:26:03] Aaron: So I just wanted to second that.
funny enough, my, sight reading teacher on drums was also Israeli, and so he approached it like very much counting, very much like a calculator.
[00:26:11] Sierra: I'm like, I don't like math that much, you know, so I like, I
[00:26:16] Aaron: Especially under the gun. Like, nope.
[00:26:18] Michaela: I'm curious I guess it's shifting gears, but being so rooted in the musical communal aspect of it.
As the foundation of your career, when you first started, you mentioned, you know, riding the, the roller coaster ever career, the high highs and the low lows when you first experienced, any disappointment or challenge in the career aspect, How did you grapple with that was that jarring for you for the first time?
has it ever had any impact to feel a career disappointment? Has it had any impact on your musical relationship? And uh, what are some of the ways you've learned to cope with managing your response to the low times?
[00:26:57] Sierra: probably just write a bunch of depressing songs, you know, these days, but, uh, no, I mean, I think, I did start so young and I, you know, in hindsight, sometimes I look back at like how many things happened to me when I was a young kid that I'm like, gosh, you know, even like the multitude of heroes I got to meet or get on stage with or like cool opportunities that, Had I not done those things now, I'd be like, oh my gosh, I'd still love to get to, meet Alison Grouse, or work with her, for example, or Chris Thiele, or people like that that I met at such a young age But like, my dad was always very real with me about it, you know, in a way that like, kept me super grounded and realizing that this is always going to be a lot of work and, just because something really cool happens doesn't mean that you can just, be like, okay, cool.
I guess I can just like chill and relax now. Like, it's about. Life's work really and continuing that work amidst the highs amidst the lows, a couple of things that just, pop into my head is I remember being maybe 10 years old or something like that and getting a little bit lazy on practicing.
I mean, I loved it, but like any kid, you get distracted or you're just like wanting to do something else or whatever for a little bit. and my brother was a musician as well, but my dad didn't push him quite as hard because my brother. Didn't really want it as a career. Like he wasn't like, this is what I'm going to do.
And I think for me, it was always clear, is what I want to do. And so I remember my dad saying, If you never learned anything else, you've already learned enough in two years of playing that if you want to be an old lady and sit on the front porch someday at like, whatever, 75 years old, you can play music and music can be a fun part of your life.
Something you can go to these jams. You can have fun. You probably wouldn't have to learn anything else you can already play hundreds of tunes and whatever if you want this like you say you do for a career, then you've got to keep working it doesn't end, you know? like, right now you're 10 years old and everybody gathers around and says, Oh my gosh, look at that cute little girl.
You know? And he goes, isn't she really good? And he goes, and you are really good for someone that's played two years. 10 years old. He goes you're an impressive player. It's not that you've not worked hard up until now. But he goes, but someday you're gonna be 16. You're gonna be 18. And if you sound the way you sound now, And you're getting into adulthood.
Nobody's really going to care. They're not going to take note. They're not going to be like, yeah, I need to call that girl to come play this or do that, and he was like, and when you're 25, you need to sound like someone who's been playing since they were eight years old and working hard, and the journey doesn't really stop there. And so it was like really good advice. I mean, I remember him saying one of these days, Alison Krauss is going to call you and you're not going to be ready, cause that was like my big dream to get to play with her. and she did, which is really funny, but and I knew a ton of the songs and I was stoked, to be able to do it.
but yeah, I think that, you have those moments of disappointment and a lot of times for me, I think it's usually resulted in yes, the moment of like, oh, severely bummed. Yeah, I think I manage it better as I'm older as we do just kind of realizing, okay, I can't have my whole life Crumble apart because I didn't have this happen when I wanted it to happen or this didn't go exactly the way I wanted or you have a bad show which feels like a bad show to you, but probably to the crowd was great.
equally when you think you have a great show and you're like, man, that was awesome. People are like, yeah, whatever. That was a fun, you know, I mean, so it's, it's so relative to our. Emotional feelings at the time I think I get a little better as I get older about not letting it wreck me for days on end kind of thing, but I think we're all just a bunch of sensitive creative.
So, Of course, everybody wants to feel loved and appreciated and have people like what they do or you want to. Get the gigs that you're sending out to get or have people show up or whatever it may be, you know, have good things happen with music, you release or videos or whatever.
you know, Charlie Worsham.
[00:30:42] Michaela: hmm.
[00:30:43] Sierra: saw,
I saw Charlie at a event the other night at the country music hall of fame and, and my husband and I were just talking and somehow I forget what brought it up, but he said something about yeah, you know, doing this, it's kind of like. Our emotional selves is like a balloon that constantly gets aired up and it's like floating higher and higher and then somebody comes along with a pin every once in a while and just goes, and then you go sinking right back down then you like slowly patch it up a little bit until it starts to rise again, you know, and I thought that's so true, it's like the perfect analogy that I think most of us can at least relate to of those moments where you get real bummed and you feel kind of like meh for a little while and doing all this and working away at it because it is so much work you know, hopefully passion driven work, but still work nonetheless.
And then something cool happens and you're like, oh, man, that was awesome. And then you're like, really pumped for a while until the next thing happens that you're kind of like, well, hell shoot. Okay.
You know, and that's just how it goes, so I think at this point I've at least, value of having done it from a young age, now it's like trying to take that disappointment and fuel it into, oftentimes working harder and going, okay, this doesn't make me better or worse than I was yesterday.
The things I'm feeling right now. how much of our emotions are even really steeped in reality half the time, you know what I'm saying? Like, like you're just, just because in this moment you're telling yourself all the negative things I'm definitely that person that wakes up at four in the morning stressing over something to do with my career.
Cause I care. I love it. And I've worked hard. So it's like. of course, that's going to come with it, but I've gotten better at being like, girl, stop it. This is dumb. You know, Nothing's any worse or better in this second than it was yesterday when you weren't worried about this. So the best thing you can do is go stop it, go back to sleep and get up in the morning.
It's a new day. Just get back to work. whatever that means, that's more so what I'm trying to tell myself these days. And also that it's, okay to not spend my life. Worrying about my career or, the things that I dream of, because it's like in a strange way, I think lately I've gone, does this mean I care less?
And then sometimes that freaks me out. Like, Am I just caring less or have I become complacent somehow? no, I don't think it's that. I think it's that I'm just. Maybe, hopefully, maturing in my emotions enough to go, What is real? Who am I? My whole thing doesn't have to be defined, by this thing I do.
And it's okay for me to love it and want to work hard, but it's also okay for me to remember all the other amazing things in my life, and, you know, how good I've got it too, and great family and friends and other blessings that I have, and not let this thing be just such a strong Anchor in my life, whether I'm flying high or flying low, sinking low, if that makes sense,
[00:33:31] Aaron: a hundred
[00:33:31] Michaela: percent. That idea that anxiety and worry is your evidence That you're caring is such a strong idea that I think, for those of us who do have a habit of worrying about things or having anxiety, I feel like that's the root of it, that feels like the root of it for me of like, but if I don't worry,
[00:33:52] Aaron: I'm going to miss
[00:33:52] Sierra: It's all gonna fall apart. Yeah, it's all gonna
fall apart.
[00:33:55] Michaela: gonna, be, and then years will slip by and I'll be like, what did I
[00:33:59] Sierra: Exactly. but it's Maybe not true either,
[00:34:02] Michaela: yeah, and if you have any sort of, spiritual practice, or mindfulness practice, or even like religious, whatever it is, I feel like you can really dig into the idea of just Being is okay.
And that's the whole point. But because of the society we live in, and that's why you're such an interesting person to talk to, because, like you said, also reach so many high points at such a young age, then you're like what's in front of me next?
I have to keep doing it. And it's been Programmed in you, I would assume from, observation and I, think the reason I love these conversations too is I think it's so easy to look at people who are high achieving, especially people who are labeled as virtuosic children like yourself or like Chris Thiele and think Oh, Chris Thiele doesn't have disappointments in life.
He just skates through life because he's just so young. Naturally gifted. He's a genius. and he just gets everything he wants that's
[00:34:58] Sierra: It's so not true. It's so not true I remember watching a Beyonce documentary, several years ago, and I was like, oh my god Everything she's saying like is what I feel, and I'm thinking it's Beyonce and I'm thinking like, of course, it's all happening at a much higher scale but the emotional Angst one has is sort of the same
from the creative standpoint obviously, I know there's, you know, that, more successful you are, of course, the privileges that come along with that, and not trying to lose sight of that, and just be like, oh, we're all created equal in our anxieties, because I know it's different if you're like, no, I'm stressed, I'm not gonna be able to pay my bills, those kind of things, but it's in terms of just wanting To be the thing you're meant to be from the creative side or the musical side.
I think we all tell ourselves a lot of the same narratives, no matter how successful we are, aren't. And like you said, it's so easy to look at the other person and think that, how many times do we do that? And just be like, Oh, that person just looks like everything's just going so great for them.
And, poor me, I'm over here just working hard and this didn't go the way I wanted or whatever. we all feel those things.
It's good to remember that.
[00:36:03] Michaela: Yeah. Hence why we want these conversations. Yeah. Because we all need these reminders. I'm curious about, In a very male community and then also in bluegrass music in general is still very male dominated. And I read an interview with you where, you know, you get asked all the time about what's it like being a woman in bluegrass?
And that you, in the one interview I read with you, you said, you know, in general you've had a really positive experience but no, that's not the case for everybody. One thing I've been thinking about lately that I never really realized when I think of like, sexism in any industry or in the world, what comes to mind usually is discrimination of overtly like, being pushed out or not allowed in.
Or sexual harassment. But one of the things that I've, only recently has been turning over in my mind is that dynamic of the, loving, fatherly relationship where, as a woman, you are, seen as a daughter. And it might be really positive because you are genuinely cared for and concerned about and brought in under this.
But I'm just so curious of what could be. challenging about that as well, because you're still not being seen as a peer or in the same way as male colleagues. And I'm curious if that's ever come to mind, especially being young, small. woman starting out and how your dad said yeah, you're cute.
And so that plays into like, this is so impressive how that has evolved for you in becoming an adult and that kind of like daughter image that could be beneficial, but could be challenging. And I could be projecting all of these thoughts onto you. So
[00:37:44] Sierra: No, no,
no, I think it's something definitely I've thought about. It's funny, I catch myself being way more of a feminist than I ever meant to be or thought I would be. So it's of course, I'm all about strong female representation and seeing my female friends do well and Noticing more in my adulthood when you look at a festival lineup and there's one female on the bill or there's, you know, like I still very often look up and go, okay I'm, the only woman in the room of 15 other musicians or one of two or three, you know, but yeah, I think it, works the other way too.
Whereas What you read in the interview, absolutely correct. I did grow up in such a positive environment. So I feel really fortunate that nobody ever said, Oh, we're not gonna let this little girl here and play with us. Even when I could only just play chords, you know, like maybe chop some rhythm on the mandolin, like some of the, Elderly kind of at least in my mind, they definitely were a lot older than me at the time. Like, you know, kind of local, male musicians let me get up play. I didn't have to ask. They just. Welcome to me in that way. So, I mean, I was really fortunate again. I know not everybody has that, but I also think, it is true.
Perhaps as a woman, you have to work twice as hard at certain things as they say to kind of earn the seat at the table. But I do think if you work really hard, a lot of times you're not denied and. The same way, perhaps, that there is a certain amount of having to really earn your place.
on the flip side, I'm very aware that It also can be an advantage sometimes because they might think, Oh, well, we do need a female on this lineup. Who can we get? Okay well, let's, get Sierra, it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, that's sometimes why you get the invite, but also knowing that when you do get that invite that you show up prepared.
And ready to give it your all and your best, and not trying to just use that as a reason to get the seat at the table but being aware that, yeah, sometimes, of course, things are going to come and, maybe even trying to find a way to be proud of that, be proud to represent women when the opportunity is given, but yeah I'm definitely more on the side of like, if I.
And being hired to do something, I hope first and foremost I'm being hired to do it because somebody thinks I have something to offer, more than like, oh, well, let's get the chick in the band or let's get the female on the bill. But I know it works both ways. And so I think there can be opportunities.
That you can make the most out of either way, because you never really always know what people's intentions are but I have been really fortunate I have to say over the years of, you know, having people like Chris Thiele when I was, 10 years old, take time to jam with me at Merlefest An hour and a half, backstage um, or Sam Bush, same deal, sit down and, they didn't have to do that.
I was just a young kid player that was, a couple of years into learning. It's not like I was just like, anywhere on their league of playing, but yet they took time to do that. And that always meant a lot to me. And I think as a result, I never thought of it as a kid.
I didn't really even think about it too much when I was getting on stage with the. older male figures that I grew up around it just kind of felt like cool These are my friends and oh my gosh, of course, I love you know My friend little Logan's a great fiddle player and Ronnie Gilruth on the banjo And of course like these are my buds almost more than even people I went to school with because I couldn't wait to go Play music on the weekends, you know, it was like these are the people that I considered some of my dearest friends.
And yeah, you just start to think about it later, but I do think it's probably in hindsight. I stand by the fact that, to this day, Alison Krauss's music is still, some of my favorite. Ever made and it's like I think I would have been drawn to it no matter what I like to believe even if I was a dude I would still be like man.
This is amazing My husband's equally admirer of her music but I also do know that that probably had something to do With how much I was like, Oh my God, here's this woman who plays fiddle like that, you know, I mean, she's an incredible fiddle player. A lot of people don't even think about the fact that she plays fiddle.
But you know, those of us who really love, love the music and, and, you know, go shoot equally incredible fiddler, but then sings like that too. And, leads her own band. Having that kind of image in front of me or seeing. Alison Brown on the cover of an album when I was a kid.
Those were the moments that I thought about it. Not when I was at the jam. Nobody at the jam ever gave me reason to think, Oh, you're the only female. It was just when I would see that, or I saw a Rhonda Vincent album cover, and it was a woman holding a mandolin, and it only dawned on me, I haven't seen that really.
And I went And I went, I'm going to make records someday too. And that's going to be me someday. I'm going to be like 30, 40 years old. And, just kind of made me imagine myself as an adult and what that might be like to be an adult musician who gets to make records and seeing that. So I do think representation is so important because of that, because it allows young.
Girls to see themselves in that way.
[00:42:36] Michaela: A hundred percent. I'll never forget having, when we lived in New York and I first started playing guitar, I had my guitar on my back and I went into a coffee shop and there was a dad and his son and this little boy looked up at me and went, why does she have a guitar? Girls don't play guitar. I was like, Oh no, I didn't
[00:42:54] Sierra: you're like, all right, dad step in now, please.
[00:42:58] Aaron: here's your
[00:42:59] Sierra: Oh, my gosh. The old phrase that everybody laughs. You're pretty good for a girl. Everybody's always kind of. jokingly been like, yeah, she's like my friend, Ron Block and Allison's band who, know, has been like a dear friend and mentor for years, you know, he'd always joke go.
Yeah. You know, She's pretty good for a chick, just like
teasing, you know, because like, you know, he certainly grew up in a time where there were fewer women less representation. And I know the women before me dealt with that way more than I've had to, you know, so, it's been a tough road for a lot of the, the leading ladies, of our acoustic scene.
so I feel. Really grateful to kind of, get to be on the heels of that and know that, that, probably a big part of why I've been able to, have the experiences I have and had in many ways then be positive is because of that,
[00:43:43] Michaela: yeah. awesome. Can you talk a little bit about touring for so long and how do you have any routines or ways that you stay healthy while managing going in and out of being on the road and being home and, and what that life is like?
[00:44:00] Sierra: Yeah, I mean, it's funny. I'm always trying to go. Oh my gosh. do I do better on the road? I love to eat. I'm not gonna lie. I just love all things food. So it's just easy to want to always scope out The good food and the good coffee. And I do think that's part of the joy of being on tour too.
especially on, a long tour, like a bus tour where you don't have your own vehicle, you're just in this. Tie quarters with people all the time. It's to be able to like get off a bus and go maybe even walk a mile Wherever you're at to the coffee shop get a good long walk in have a nice coffee come back It's like as simple as that sounds that's one of the things I really look forward to and how like good food and coffee and things like that kind of play into joys of the road, but in terms of like, also trying to, I bought a jump rope and so I'm about to pack that baby on tour with me coming up, I'm about to be in Europe for three and a half weeks and I was just kind of thinking, this is going to be like a busy tour and when you're gone that long, and it's there's so much going on, really trying to take care of yourself it's hard, yeah.
I'm coming off the holidays where, you know, I been eating all the Christmas cookies and just picking out, you know, it's like, you know, trying to find the things that are easy to both pack with you, travel with you find those moments. But for me, yeah lots, of long walks when I can get that in, because I found I need that.
I'm a very social person. I thrive well being around people. So, my husband is very quiet he's somebody that, definitely maxes out faster than me on like he needs his, solo time. and I love that he knows that. So he knows how to like protect.
His space and do what he needs to do in that regard. Whereas sometimes if I'm not careful, I'm just not even thinking about the fact that I do really need to carve out that me time. And so it'd be easy for me to just be like, honestly, I was at a festival down in Mexico this past weekend and it was fun.
So I, did a lot of talking. So my voice is like a little. Raspy right now as a result. even that's not good. I've got to learn to take care of myself and not, be, of course, thankfully I don't have anything I got to do much for the next bit here. In terms of like, you know, performing or whatever, until we, off at the end of the month, but like, it's, the little things that kind of, at least for me, that creep up on me that I'm just, I have to be aware of cause it's so easy to just be. Social, which, can be taxing on your, voice and, realizing that you gotta have time to get the quiet time in because it's so much more important than we realize, even for us social types, to be able to you. Have time to really think and ground ourselves and like where we're at.
I've found on times where I'm so busy that if I'm not careful, it's just go, go, go, go, go. Long days, long day, long day, long day. And though my I'm a pretty good road dog. Like, I usually can kind of get in there. I've done it long enough. I can handle uh, those rough days as I need to with fairly good spirits, but it's like, you come home and you just realize, oh my God I'm, dead.
I pushed it more than I should, being mindful of it, I think for me is one of the things I really have to remind myself when I'm out on a long run like that, because it's just so easy to wear yourself down.
[00:47:09] Michaela: Yeah, I think it takes so much discipline and forethought, because especially if you're someone like how you're describing, I feel like I'm that way of like, I get so hyper and excited by the fun of tour and being around people and talking like, I lose my voice on tour because I can't not
[00:47:27] Sierra: I know, I know, it's bad.
But
[00:47:32] Michaela: like the last, the very last tour that we did budding up to the pandemic, shutting everything down was a three week van tour. Like, Down through Texas up to the West Coast. And it was like crazy long drives there was five of us, like no TM. And I was selling merch and like the schedule was just like insane of wake up super early drive all day, like load in like, set up merch, sound check, play the show, then go sell merch, talk to fans, go to bed, get you know, four or five hours of sleep.
And I was just like yes, this is amazing. And then we got back and everything shut down. And I was like, wait, that was like. On the verge of
[00:48:07] Sierra: like, I'm a psycho. What is this?
yeah. Yeah.
[00:48:12] Michaela: I was like, I think my like, whole nervous system is like, you can't do that.
[00:48:15] Sierra: For real, though, I do think that as hard as it is for the introverted person to go on a long tour and to just be trapped in a van or bus or a lot of flying or whatever it may be, it's equally hard on, those of us who thrive on it too. at least.
From my experience being married to a introverted man, he, you know, knows when it's too much and he's like, nope, I'm going to go over here.
not going to that show tonight. I'm going to chill and do my thing or I'm going to go, do something that is very grounding to him, I'm the type that if I'm not being somewhat social, I also worry that I'm being rude, or that somebody's going to think that I'm not happy, and nothing like that, or that I don't want to hang out with these people because we're all here
together, yeah, I get strange guilt, when I'm, Which I don't think, Justin ever feels that He's not made that way, if anything he's always telling me It's okay, Sierra, you don't have to always, reply to like, every text or like, always feel like you have to, like, go that extra mile, know what I mean? he's like, nobody's thinking that you're being unfriendly, nobody's thinking, but it's just, a, desire or The way I'm made up, in a way I'm getting better at it, I think, the older I get, of just being like, you know, Nope, I need to sit this one out, cause I need to take care of myself, or nobody's concerned with what I'm doing, they're doing their own thing, how, uh, egotistical of me to think that, Oh, everybody just must think I need to be there or they're going to be stupid or they're going to think I'm being rude. It's like, no, they're probably like, whatever, we're going to dinner. You don't have to join us.
[00:49:47] Aaron: Yeah as somebody that is definitely more on the introverted or I get overloaded quickly, I guess, which took me a long time to learn. I basically got sober like in early 2018 and that like, especially being in Nashville, it's like such a drinking town.
I lost so many friends and had to come to terms with like not wanting to go out every night. I was like, Oh, I don't actually like this. but I see a lot of parallels between that like, feeling of like needing to engage, needing to be social, like all that with like not being able to let off the gas pedal on your career for a minute.
I think it's like very parallel congruent anxieties of like, Oh no, I need to keep this going. And. In my experience, it's like just kind of taking my hands off the wheel for a minute and realizing that like everything keeps spinning was a really big relief.
[00:50:31] Sierra: for sure.
[00:50:32] Michaela: Yeah, building in times to regroup, as my mother said my entire life.
She would be like, No, Mikayla, you can't go straight from school to this. You need to come home and regroup. And I'm like, what is this regroup? And now I totally get it. Now also having a child, I'm like, oh, she needs time to
[00:50:50] Sierra: I was going to say, I'm
sure like having the child be a part of that element to changes that dynamic in a way to, really make you. Have somebody else to think about, cause it's just easy to kind of be like, well, of course, I'm going to go do everything all the time. But you can be like well, you know, actually I can't cause now I've got to do this.
I've seen that with friends where there's a thing at play that's a bigger part of your life all of a sudden than what this career is. kind of in a beautiful way makes you, think about What am I really doing over here on the career side and how can I maximize the things that I really care about and sort of like let go of all the other things that are just taken up time that I don't necessarily need to be doing, And I don't have child of my own but I certainly feel like the older I get, I've started over the last, Two to three years, very much more like asking myself why am I saying yes to this? And, is this something I truly feel like is a good use of my time or something that I want to do?
And why is that, you know, is it cause I'm, doing something because There's a friend that I'm doing something with and of course I'm going to do it. Is there something that's just an incredible opportunity I can't say no to? Is there a good financial opportunity that it's like, well, you know, of course I should say yes to this for all these reasons.
I'm definitely somebody that struggles to say no. Again, the guilt creeps in and I feel bad, you know, of being like, I'm sorry, I can't do this or I don't have time. And I've had to learn to kind of balance that as well. But I've gotten a lot better at saying no over the last couple of years to things and being okay with it.
And people understand, Nobody's ever been like, how dare you say no to this? People are like, Oh, totally get it. You know, I'll circle back around, later, and we'll an opportunity to do this or something,
[00:52:31] Aaron: I was thinking about that in relation You know having to take every offer that comes across the table was thinking that in relation to like buying a car say I want to go buy like X car and price isn't quite right.
And so I come in and I make an offer. I'm like I'll give you this much. And the dealer says, no, I don't want that car any less. I probably want that car kind of more, you know, even though they shot down my offer, I'm like, I still want that car, but like, it's so hard to see that when you're the one
[00:52:56] Sierra: Oh man, I've seen it happen!
[00:52:58] Aaron: that you love.
[00:52:59] Sierra: I've seen it happen, truly you know, you say no to the festival that you wanted to play, but just went, I just don't think I should be adding more to my plate right now, or whatever. And, you know, nine times out of ten, something better comes in its place, or cycles around again the next year, and maybe better than it was before, or fits into your life's schedule in a way that's more appealing, or like all those things.
So I think trust in your gut on a lot of that stuff. And being smart about it, that's definitely a big part of my life that I'm focused on right now.
[00:53:29] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:53:30] Michaela: That feels like a good place to be in. Yeah.
[00:53:32] Aaron: a good place to kind of wrap this up too.
[00:53:35] Michaela: Yeah. We don't want to take any more of your time, but this has been so, I feel like the hour just whizzed
[00:53:39] Sierra: I have been known to be long winded. We talk about uh, you know, talking too much.
[00:53:44] Michaela: Well, I loved this
[00:53:45] Aaron: conversation. Yeah. We really, again, we really appreciate you taking time out of your morning to talk to
[00:53:49] Sierra: Of course,
I know already.
Can you believe it? Well, Of course, I know you're Snowdin. I'm Snowdin. So it turns out this was a great time to hop on a podcast.
[00:53:58] Michaela: Well, maybe sometime we'll all have to meet up at a flower your dreams they're so
[00:54:03] Sierra: They are
really sweet.
[00:54:04] Michaela: great chai
[00:54:05] Sierra: I have not had the chat tea.
[00:54:06] Michaela: It's homemade.
[00:54:07] Sierra: Yum.
[00:54:07] Michaela: delicious and their coffee's great And their bread is great. Everything's
[00:54:10] Sierra: I know. Have you had their breakfast sandwich that they have now?
It's, it, it's good. The yogurt bowl's good. so a couple, well, I guess it was about a year and a half ago now.
Our bass player, Eric, we did a tour. I mean, it's funny. We do a lot of flying, hopping in vans, probably at least two or three times a year we'll do like a slightly longer bus run or something. So we did a bus run like a couple falls ago, and it was his first one out with us, and he brought his Espresso machine and like dude make some good coffee, you know, he gets crema beans and like, grind it right there It's a we joked and his last name's Kobany.
So we'd be like we call him Cove So cafe Cove would open at 9 a. m. Every morning, you know the best but it was like after about three weeks of just like Eric making this good coffee every morning on the bus. I came home and Justin doesn't drink coffee at all. I was like well, honey I think I'm going to buy an espresso machine.
It's like one of my other ways to make coffee. It's hilarious for it just being me here. It's like, would you like a pour over? Would you a AeroPress? Would you like a cappuccino? Yeah, it's just like, it's sort of ridiculous.
[00:55:12] Aaron: what our house is like.
[00:55:14] Sierra: the, you know, espresso pump for, the hard times where uh, you know, if you need the travel version.
[00:55:19] Aaron: our daughter learned how to make espresso when she was 18 months old. just from us like holding her, cause machine was like our first pandemic purchase, which is a story all on its own. We were just jacked for like three months straight cause we had to figure out how to make good espresso.
[00:55:31] Sierra: just testing it out
[00:55:32] Michaela: But yeah, before Georgia could even speak, she scoops the beans, grinds it. I have a video of her at 18 months
[00:55:38] Sierra: Oh my gosh.
[00:55:41] Michaela: an espresso.
[00:55:42] Sierra: That is incredible.
[00:55:44] Michaela: we're like, Oh, we're going out for coffee for some and she'd go, why mom? We have an espresso machine right here. Yeah,
[00:55:49] Sierra: I will say, it's pretty great, I say all that to say having a legit setup's been nice, so I don't really always run over there but, lately I've told Justin, I was like, I just want to go over there and support him because I'm so stoked that there's a spot right there I'm like, survive and let's, you know, so I try to pop in there, but yeah, we'll have to meet up there sometime for sure.
[00:56:07] Aaron: Yes. That'd be great. Well, Ciara, thanks again. Thank you. This has been such a great conversation. Thanks for being so generous with your experiences and
[00:56:15] Sierra: Oh my gosh. Wonderful to chat with you guys. And yeah, hopefully we'll see you out somewhere on the road, perhaps, if not around the corner.
come
All right. Thanks y'all. See ya.