Becca Stevens is a Grammy-nominated singer songwriter who has released 6+ records of her own music, as well as collaborating with the likes of David Crosby, Jacob Collier, Laura Mvula, Brad Mehldau, Michael McDonald, Snarky Puppy, as well has having a roll in the Broadway show "Illinoise" based on the music of Sufjan Stevens. We talk with Becca about the nitty gritty of touring with an infant, balancing your passion and creativity with parenthood, balancing that passion with a partner who is also an artist, creating within and through grief, family bands, and a whole lot more.
Becca Stevens is a Grammy-nominated singer songwriter who has released 6+ records of her own music, as well as collaborating with the likes of David Crosby, Jacob Collier, Laura Mvula, Brad Mehldau, Michael McDonald, Snarky Puppy, as well has having a roll in the Broadway show "Illinoise" based on the music of Sufjan Stevens. We talk with Becca about the nitty gritty of touring with an infant, balancing your passion and creativity with parenthood, balancing that passion with a partner who is also an artist, creating within and through grief, family bands, and a whole lot more.
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Hey, and welcome to this week's episode of The Other 22 Hours Podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:13] Michaela: And I'm your other host, Michaela Anne. And this is near the end of our second year. Very happy to still be here. No sign of stopping and really thankful that you are here with us.
[00:00:22] Aaron: for those of you that are returning listeners, we have a few quick asks before we jump into today's episode.
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There's a link below in the show notes.
[00:01:44] Michaela: And one of the things we really pride ourselves on this podcast is that we are not music journalists. We are musicians ourselves. So we feel like we're offering something a little bit different. we don't consider them interviews. We consider them conversations.
Almost as if we are inviting some people over to have dinner and sitting around the dining room table, talking about the very honest realities of what it is to build a lifelong career around your art.
[00:02:08] Aaron: And what it is to live in that area is to live in the constant unknown and the things that are outside of our control.
And so we focus on what we deem is within our control, being our headspace, our routines and tools, and our creativity in general. And from the start, our mission statement has been to ask the question, What do you do to create sustainability in your life? So you can sustain your creativity. Today, we got to ask that question of Becca Stevens.
[00:02:36] Michaela: Becca Stevens is a two time Grammy nominated incredible singer, songwriter, instrumentalist blending. The genres of jazz, pop, and folk. She is such a singular artist. We've known Becca for a very long time. I think I met Becca when I was 19 years old starting at the new school. And my memory of Becca was that she was just like, I wouldn't even say I was intimidated by her because she's one of the kindest.
She was always so funny and welcoming and just vibrant and insanely talented. So when I was 19, moving to New York City for the first time, entering jazz school, I felt very tiny and she was just this big, talented, beautiful presence that was like, come on, it's okay. And she's gone on to do incredible things.
as a musician.
[00:03:26] Aaron: Yeah, on top of those Grammy nominations, she's collaborated closely with the likes of David Crosby, Jacob Collier, Brad Meldow Travis Sullivan's Bjorkestra in which she was Bjork, Timo Andres, Michael McDonald, Snarky Puppy. It just, the list goes on and on. She just recently made her Broadway debut in Illinois, which was based on Sufjan Stevens album of the same title.
Just an incredible person, an incredible artist obviously so much output.
[00:03:54] Michaela: I just have to interrupt because I loved the way And we need to keep this in the episode the way you said Timo Andres. I think it's Timo Anders. I've met Timo.
[00:04:05] Aaron: But
[00:04:06] Michaela: we're going to have both in here just in case to do our due diligence.
[00:04:10] Aaron: And that's where the power of doing the final quality control comes through. So, With that, we have touched on call it artistic parenthood quite often in this show. I don't think we've ever touched on it at the level that we did in this episode. It's a, remarkably single focused conversation that has so many facets and so much intricacy and nuance throughout the whole episode, but we really go deep.
So if you've been wondering. how it's possible to create art and more importantly, create a career around your art while also creating a family. This is the spot for you.
[00:04:46] Michaela: Yeah. Without further ado, here is our conversation with Becca Stevens.
[00:04:51] Becca: That
[00:04:54] Michaela: been, like, 15, 20 years.
[00:04:55] Becca: Yeah.
[00:04:58] Aaron: Yeah,
people ask me when I was at the new school and I'm like, It's a big head scratcher so
[00:05:02] Michaela: and we're all like a year or two apart, I think but we all started like almost 20 years ago Yeah, that's crazy.
I
[00:05:09] Aaron: definitely started 20 years ago because that hurts
[00:05:11] Becca: I started in 03, so more than 20 years ago.
[00:05:14] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:05:15] Michaela: Whoa.
[00:05:16] Becca: Crazy.
[00:05:17] Michaela: okay. Well, Thank you so much for coming on. I've been like following your journey. peripherally, since we knew each other in school, I've been aware of what you've been doing over the past 20 years then really started noticing what you were sharing in the past few years with becoming a mom, losing your mom, all these things that felt relatable to my life as well.
And also just like the way that you've been sharing very honestly about what the reality is of being a working mother and a very high level achieving musician. So there's so many things I want to talk to you about. just to start off, how are you feeling today?
[00:05:55] Becca: what a sweet question for a podcast. Um. Rested, which is rare,
I just got back from a tour about five days ago where I was in a different country every day, traveling alone with my infant daughter. And it was unbelievably exhausting. But the nice thing about coming home from Europe is that the jet lag kind of works in your favor.
The last three nights I've passed out when putting my girls to sleep at eight o'clock. and then slept until they wake up at six,
Including nursing through the night, which is a whole other thing.
Like, I don't actually know what it feels Like, to through the night,
[00:06:33] Aaron: hmm.
[00:06:34] Becca: Getting that much rest for three nights in a row, I feel like jet fuel superpowers of rest right now.
[00:06:40] Aaron: Yeah. Amazing. It Yeah. incredible, like, when you're in that state of mind and in that period of life, like, how little sleep it actually takes to Feel good? Yeah.
[00:06:49] Becca: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
That's so true. And you're just like what, what do I do with all this energy?
[00:06:55] Aaron: Yeah, you're like, I slept four hours straight. I can do anything.
the first time we brought our daughter to Europe, we
[00:07:03] Becca: Yeah.
[00:07:04] Aaron: Scotland and it was, you know, a red eye and we barely slept on the way there.
And so we were really tired and we more or less went to sleep when she went to sleep. We
[00:07:12] Becca: Mm hmm.
[00:07:12] Aaron: like, her normal bedtime, Scottish time. We slept until
like
[00:07:16] Michaela: eight or nine eight or
[00:07:17] Aaron: nine in the morning and she was still asleep and I just remember like laying in bed and there was sun coming through the window in the airbnb and I was like this is the greatest morning of my life.
[00:07:26] Becca: Yep.
Yeah. there just blissed out for like an
Uh huh.
[00:07:30] Aaron: she
[00:07:30] Becca: Uh huh.
it's like a fairy tale. what a difference some sleep makes. It changes your lenses completely.
[00:07:36] Michaela: I feel like when we first had our daughter is three almost three and a half and I'm seven months pregnant right now.
And thank
[00:07:45] Becca: I wouldn't have known from the angle that I'm
looking at you.
[00:07:48] Michaela: it's if I stand up, I've got a beach ball in here. But, I watched your story. highlight of touring solo in Europe with your eight month old.
and I love it because that's the whole premise of this podcast and like
[00:08:01] Becca: Hmm.
[00:08:01] Michaela: like ethos or especially my ethos in my approach to my career of just not creating a farce and being really vulnerable and honest.
[00:08:09] Becca: Hmm.
[00:08:10] Michaela: when you're posting like 1am, 3am, 3am, 6 a.
m. like,
[00:08:14] Becca: Hmm.
[00:08:15] Michaela: my God. And I remember when we first had Georgia, the first couple of weeks, we were cocky. We were like, Oh, sleep deprivation. We've been training for this for years as touring musicians.
[00:08:25] Becca: huh.
[00:08:26] Michaela: went by and we were like, Oh, but the difference is you don't get any break.
[00:08:29] Becca: Yeah, it
doesn't end. It's forever.
[00:08:32] Aaron: You don't
[00:08:33] Michaela: get to recover. So,
[00:08:35] Becca: Yeah, it's true.
[00:08:37] Michaela: so you're feeling good today because you got A solid night of sleep waking up every few hours.
[00:08:42] Becca: It's like a dance. don't know if you guys do the co sleeping thing, but I don't know how people survive without it. But
goes to sleep in a little side sleeper I'm just going to go into full detail about
this because the is called The other
Hours, so, um, she goes to sleep in a side sleeper next to our bed and then she wakes up for the first time and if I'm already in bed, I just kind of roll her in and I make like a kickstand with my arm
And um, it's so beautiful because then instead of me having to go to another room and Sit in a chair and get fully
like Turn a light on whatever.
I'm just letting her nurse, we doze back to sleep. And then when she wakes up again, three hours later, we do this kind of dance flip thing where I flip her to the other side and then she nurses and we fall back to sleep. So it's definitely disturbed sleep, but it's also so much more functional, I think, than if I was going to another room every three hours.
she's eight months now, like you said probably soon we're going to start. her in the crib in her sister's room
her cry for longer stretches Which as you guys both know is like the most excruciating
[00:09:50] Aaron: Yeah. I was thinking about that just last night, actually trying to fall asleep. I had a gig, which is rare for me. I rarely leave my studio. So like the, after gig like, Adrenaline is like very real for me and very strong
and so I was like lying in bed trying to fall asleep I just had a visceral memory of like that Dread hearing a kid cry like
[00:10:07] Becca: oh Yeah,
[00:10:08] Aaron: it wakes me up like immediately
[00:10:10] Becca: huh cough in the other room.
[00:10:11] Aaron: I'm awake.
[00:10:12] Becca: Yeah
[00:10:13] Aaron: But like I used to get like this pit in my stomach I'm like, I wonder if I'm gonna get that this time
[00:10:18] Becca: Uh huh
[00:10:19] Aaron: Because I know it passes, but
[00:10:20] Becca: Yeah
[00:10:21] Aaron: yeah, it's
[00:10:21] Becca: you
[00:10:22] Aaron: thing. Great!
while you were traveling with your infant, did you co sleep all night kind of thing?
[00:10:29] Becca: We had, arranged cribs at the hotels and at the venues too.
you know, her, Her Sleep schedule was so thrown off that I didn't know exactly when she was going to want to nap and for how long when we got there. And it worked out really well. I have to say like she was amazing.
and then I hired babysitters, in each city that we went to. So I did the traveling alone and then I would arrive there and meet a caretaker that I either I'd known before or somebody that was highly recommended. for example, in St.
Germain, a friend of mine came and she took a nap in the stroller during the soundcheck. It was like perfectly timed. And then she took a nap in the crib during the gig, which was from like 10 to 1130 PM. And then I took her back to the hotel, put her in the crib at the hotel. She slept there for like, three, four, maybe five hours and then started crying and I brought her into the bed.
for me right now, it's like, I'm using all of the things. And then sometimes she sleeps in the carrier on my front. And sometimes she sleeps in the carrier on my back.
You
know,
Just depends where we are and what we're doing. And I think that's one of the strengths of traveling with a baby at this age, which.
To be honest, a month from now it's going to be completely different, because she'll want to walk around.
You know?
[00:11:41] Michaela: this is the stuff I find so helpful because Was trying to figure out like through the
[00:11:47] Becca: Yeah.
[00:11:48] Michaela: and like reaching out to every other Touring mom I knew of how do you do this? Do you take a pack and play? is it easier to just arrange for it?
Like There's all those logistical things that are It's super helpful to know
[00:11:59] Becca: Yeah.
[00:12:00] Michaela: really helpful to see women who are sharing how to do it because it's like, watching your reel where you were like, I maybe wouldn't do this where I'm traveling alone where I don't have someone with me.
[00:12:11] Becca: I would not.
Yeah. time.
[00:12:12] Michaela: yeah,
[00:12:13] Becca: Yeah. It was a really good reason for me to ever do that again. Yep.
[00:12:21] Michaela: you're trying to balance making enough of a profit that it feels worth it versus also making sure that you feel comfortable and taking care of,
[00:12:30] Becca: Mm
[00:12:31] Michaela: that also impacts your performances. I'm curious how, All of these kind of personal life changes have impacted your relationship to your writing and your
[00:12:43] Becca: Mm hmm. Mmhmm. Mm hmm. of a baby.
[00:12:51] Michaela: Even just hearing you talk about nap times and windows, you're constantly like running math and doing all of this stuff and like, Oh shit, now I got a pump. there's so many other things now that is taking up so much space in your brain finally there are studies coming out that are proving, and showing that they actually are studying.
Mother's brains that they completely change and rearrange. Which is comforting to know when you're like, what the fuck happened to my brain?
[00:13:18] Becca: Yeah. And fathers too, I
think, um, in, in a different way, but yeah, completely. just as we were starting this podcast, I was like, Oh, I need to pump. so it was, I chuckled when you said that. So both my girls are in daycare right now. And you mentioned the record that came out in August. It's called Maple to Paper, and there's a song on there called Payin to Be a Part.
Which I wrote on a day not unlike today. I think it was at this time of year where I'm like, was looking out this exact window at the beautiful, rainbow Foliage, don't know if you guys can see it there's like a little sliver of my mirror behind me, but I can see red and orange and yellow and green and brown and, bright blue in the sky.
And sitting here with an achy heart because I'm like, what I really wanna be doing this moment is. walking hand in hand with my girl outside and pointing at this and talking about it, and enjoying each other's company, you know, two things can be true. I also have this lifelong passion of self expression through art that is a part of me to be nurtured in order for me to be a fulfilled and happy person there's this thing that happens when You, have two things coexisting.
You have to spend money in order to have somebody else be with your kids so that you can work. And then this is me finally answering your question. It makes the time when you're apart, or for me it does, the time when I'm apart from her and I'm working, it makes it more efficient because I'm like, I'm not going to mess around with this.
And then if I want to rest I'm really deliberate about that too. I'm like, I'm going to take one mental health rest day and then tomorrow I'm back to work. And when I'm back to work, I'm not doing as much you know, on, records prior, I did a lot of over obsessing, experimenting in directions where my instinct was telling me maybe, no, this is not the best way to go.
But now I'm like. getting really good at listening to instincts and my muse, and figuring out when are the moments where that's like resonating and I'm serving the song, and if that's not happening, then it's wasted time that I could be spending with my children,
[00:15:28] Aaron: I feel that. no time for BS
[00:15:31] Becca: Uh
[00:15:31] Aaron: at all intentionality is really welcomed my perspective.
when we first started our parenthood journey, I definitely felt like a lot of anxiety. A lot of resentment, not like towards my kid, but towards the situation and
[00:15:45] Becca: hmm.
[00:15:46] Aaron: new reality as I was getting adjusted to it.
But now I can't see any other way. it's amazing that it takes like another human being that you are responsible for to create that paradigm. But it's like, Why waste your time on things that are not absolutely lighting you up and absolutely serving like what you're going for,
[00:16:01] Becca: hmm. Mm
[00:16:02] Aaron: I did before Being a parent I felt really busy
[00:16:06] Becca: hmm. What did I do? What was I filling my time with?
[00:16:09] Michaela: one of the reasons I feel these conversations are important it feels really prevalent this week because sometimes I feel like, am I annoying people that I just like talk about motherhood and parenthood but like obviously focused on motherhood I do think the conversation needs to include fathers and all, especially today's fathers who are, you know, everything says they spend like 60 percent more time with their children than previous generations.
Parenthood in general and building families, especially in, industries like the music industry that doesn't really. Create space for it
[00:16:43] Becca: Yeah.
[00:16:44] Michaela: honor it. Another thing that I saw you say on Instagram was like this kind of subconscious judgment you feel like you've even been guilty of judging someone for Especially women for becoming a mom
[00:16:57] Becca: Mm
[00:16:57] Michaela: time I think am I beating a dead horse?
Are people sick of hearing me talk about this? Then I'll have a conversation this week and my friend might listen to this podcast and that's okay. I'll tell her that I mentioned it,
[00:17:08] Becca: Mm
[00:17:08] Michaela: when she was talking about if her and her partner were considering having kids, she was like you know, the honest reality is we're considering which one of us would be willing to sacrifice our career because let's be honest, you can't really have a career and be a mom.
And I Hmm.
Hello.
[00:17:24] Becca: What am I, chopped liver?
[00:17:28] Michaela: And I've had that experience so many times. I've like been at festivals and heard some been sitting at a festival and somebody says that at the table and I'm like. Hello. Are we not playing the same festival?
[00:17:38] Becca: Mm
[00:17:38] Michaela: Am I also not working?
[00:17:40] Becca: Mm hmm.
[00:17:41] Michaela: a, reflection of those individuals.
It's just like such a deeply ingrained Narrative. Mm-Hmm.
[00:17:47] Becca: and it makes perfect sense that she would have come to that conclusion because there's not enough of it being there. Being prevalent, Shown around us when I was in my
twenties and Even thirties, Like you mentioned earlier, I was looking everywhere for role models in this world of people who were both working and having children, and it was really hard to find.
Both things actively happening, particularly with women, with mothers. And so I would see people who women who were really crushing it, who had decided not to have children. And it's easy to tell your brain like, Oh, wow, they're doing great because they never had that interruption of uprooting everything.
And then I would see people who decided to become mothers and took like it. Years off from their career or just didn't come back. And also that's a beautiful thing. Like If that's what you choose to do, like I've had moments where I've thought, man, that would be nice, but it was really hard to find people who are doing both.
I think it's a little easier to see it now. Like more people are making that effort now, but that does not mean it's easy
the It's
[00:18:53] Becca: At times, like impossibly hard. You heard me say, I'm never going out without bringing someone again. that takes a huge hit on the profit of a tour.
. we're in a world Now post pandemic where we've, we have all figured out other ways to make money other than touring. So think touring. At least in my life is less about like, this is the only way that I make money to support my career and more like, this is something I have to do when I put out an album and I just get through it, which is the sad, the sad truth, but you talked about shame and this is another issue that I've thought a lot about.
was having a conversation with a friend of mine, too, here in Princeton, and she was saying that she feels like there's two camps, of working moms. There's the musician mom who literally pretends like they never had a kid,
multiple Times.
I've
seen people Who have kids and they just don't post about it. They don't talk about it. Some of their, even close acquaintances don't even know that they have children.
[00:19:54] Aaron: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[00:19:56] Michaela: Yep.
[00:19:56] Becca: and I've heard stories from those people where they ended up telling someone that they worked with, they like did a late, show.
Colbert or something like
that. And Afterwards, the artist they were playing with was like, Alright, should we go grab a drink? And she was like, Oh, I need to get back to the hotel room because my husband is there with the baby. And he was like, Baby, I wouldn't have called you if I knew that you had a baby.
And she was like,
[00:20:17] Aaron: Ugh!
[00:20:19] Becca: Like, He thought he was being respectful, by saying Oh, I would have given you a space if I had known you had a three month old. And she was like, Yeah. Yeah, that's why I didn't tell you. So that's like the one camp is you have people that are like keeping it private so that they're not losing gigs.
And then I think opposite extreme is when you're like, people who are, taking everything on trying not to make there be any sort of blip in the radar of their work, taking on just as much and then acting like there's nothing to see here. I'm able to do this just as well as my male counterparts, plus having this whole other job and it doesn't make me any weaker and I can do all the same things.
There's nothing to see here.
I was like posting through that tour on the story, it wasn't my intention to make a tour blog, but then as it was happening, I was getting all this feedback from people being like, thank you.
I needed to see We need to talk about this.
I hope that in that blog it showed something in between the two or something else where it's like, no, there is something to see here. there are things here that shouldn't be. impossibly hard as they are. You know what I mean?
[00:21:21] Michaela: Totally. And I've always been in the camp of being honest about how hard things can be. R
[00:21:27] Becca: Hmm.
[00:21:28] Michaela: mean that you're complaining. And also why do we inherently think hard is bad? Like I tell this story a million times, when I got pregnant, I told my booking agent and he was like, oh no,
[00:21:39] Becca: Uh. Hmm. Yeah.
[00:21:43] Michaela: was like a terrible experience. I still get really angry about it because it was so violating, to be honest. And I was like. this is hard being a musician is hard touring the world is hard Having children is hard, but why is that bad we can share the struggle and what feels like a hardship And also like to educate and be like, there are ways that this could be more supportive and we
[00:22:07] Becca: Mm hmm.
[00:22:08] Michaela: systems or, cultural shifts that would make these things easier.
But also like, hard is not bad.
[00:22:13] Becca: Moving and powerful art comes from hardship. Why wouldn't you want to hear from people who just started a family? Why wouldn't you want to hear art that comes from that place? And why wouldn't you want to support these people being able to come and perform and pursue their passions during the hardest period of their life, where their life is void of being able to access those passions.
And why wouldn't you want children of those people to be able to see their parents fulfilled? it makes everyone happier. So when you get questions like on this recent tour, I heard trickles coming back of people being like, why is she doing that? Both in a judgmental way and also in like a, why would she put herself through that?
it makes sense that people wouldn't understand. But I also am like, why not?
[00:23:03] Aaron: Yeah. my thing in my experience is I never hear that.
[00:23:06] Becca: Yeah.
[00:23:07] Aaron: people say that about dads.
[00:23:09] Becca: Right.
[00:23:10] Aaron: in my experience, if I was to generalize everything, I've gotten more respect
[00:23:15] Becca: Mm.
[00:23:15] Aaron: a parent,
[00:23:16] Becca: Totally.
[00:23:17] Aaron: you have a family to support all of that. And it clicked to me earlier this week, listening to the daily and
[00:23:22] Becca: Uh huh.
[00:23:23] Aaron: interviewing, people.
Younger than us early twenties, out of college working class people. And it struck me how all of the men were talking about the deep responsibility they felt to be able to provide for their family.
and it made me just think about this.
general stigma in our culture and our society of the woman being the breadwinner. It's like, why not normalize a woman being the breadwinner? If it was a
[00:23:45] Becca: Yeah. Mm.
[00:23:46] Aaron: like subconsciously accepted in the way that it, is for men to be the breadwinner, then you guys being out there and touring with a kid, there would be no question.
It's like, this is what you need to do. So,
[00:23:55] Becca: hmm. Mm
[00:23:57] Aaron: for your family
[00:23:57] Becca: hmm.
[00:23:58] Aaron: different
[00:23:59] Becca: Mm
[00:23:59] Aaron: you guys doing it than with me doing that. like Michaela, we've been together for 17 years, 80 percent of those years, Michaela is the breadwinner.
She makes more than me. She supports our family, all of that. speaking to the men listening to That doesn't emasculate me. It doesn't make my work less. It doesn't make my value less. It's like we are in this together and it's a partnership it kind of clicked to me thinking about the reception that we have each received in Entering Parenthood if it was normalized for you guys to be the ones.
the Mm hmm. Mm
[00:24:27] Michaela: Yeah, that our households depended on our income. Yeah.
Like your friend, the experience of the band leader being like, Oh, I wouldn't have called you.
[00:24:35] Becca: Mm
[00:24:36] Michaela: It would probably be like, Oh, I should definitely call them because they probably need work because they need to provide for their family.
The, assumption that like women are somehow still just financially taken care of is weird to
me. I've definitely experienced that of like, wow, working so much. And I'm like, yeah, cause I need to,
but also I think as an artist, like you said, especially in a time when your body and your life is like under this huge transformation, art and performing and doing the thing that we've done for so long in our adult life and even childhood for you, I know like we want to do those things,
[00:25:14] Becca: Yes, but also it's okay if you don't, that, is for me the big all encompassing narrative is that I want people, especially mothers, to be able to do what they want with that sacred time.
Um,
[00:25:30] Aaron: Mm
[00:25:30] Becca: so if that Is for year to lay in bed and watch their. baby grow and laugh and kick around and
just really soak it up if there is a passion during that time to write music and make an album and go on tour and bring your baby with you and if you have the desire to stay with your baby and keep your baby by your side and feed it milk from your body Then that is the choice of that mother and that's what's going to be best for that baby because
that's what is going to make that mother feel Happy and fulfilled and therefore the baby is going to be around that joy and the big story here is that there should be support for whatever to happen.
And right now you see, at least in this country, people going back to work before they want
because they to.
People Unable to bring their babies in my example, like there's no way for me to make a profit on tour.
I either bring someone and lose money or I pay someone to watch her at home, these Are the little pockets where I'm like, There should be funding for this
there's paid maternity and paternity leave in other realms. Why in my field and in my country, like, why is this not supported?
[00:26:38] Michaela: is often, if you can't pay for it, then why are you doing it? Why do you have a child? Why are you touring if you can't pay for it? Mm hmm. there's a million layers to the response to that, but I feel like that's the kind of blaming response that I see and to childcare too.
I was thinking about this the other day of just we totally accept that public school is provided, or we actually don't totally accept because anyways, I won't go into the politics of living in Tennessee where public schools are completely under attack, but like that school, you have a place to send your kid to be educated for free from age five or six to 18, those first five years.
It's insane how much child care
[00:27:22] Becca: Hmm. Mm
hmm.
totally. of if you can't afford it Then you shouldn't have done it.
[00:27:27] Aaron: Yeah, but the thing I need to
[00:27:28] Becca: Mm.
[00:27:31] Aaron: in a van Which is most people listening to this or anybody that's driven across the country this entire country is covered in corn Yeah, and those farmers couldn't exist if it wasn't subsidized by the government So if they couldn't afford it, why are they doing it?
[00:27:43] Becca: bigger conversation of here that there are people who don't want to have children and are pregnant and have to because they'll go to jail if they don't. But
I don't know. There's like, there's a lot. There's a,
[00:27:53] Michaela: so
[00:27:54] Becca: are a lot of lots to unpack here. You know,
World would be a happier place if only people that wanted to have children were making children.
And isn't that what we want? To make a better planet for all of us to live in? conversation.
[00:28:08] Michaela: everybody wants.
[00:28:11] Becca: Mm
[00:28:13] Michaela: a musical family. Both of your parents were musicians.
[00:28:17] Becca: That's right.
Yeah. had a family band and like started touring very young in your
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[00:28:23] Michaela: musical theater productions.
[00:28:25] Becca: And I doubt we were making a profit then
either. Absolutely.
[00:28:33] Michaela: and like how that kind of informed your ideas about having a family and being a, an artist as a career path.
[00:28:43] Becca: I'm the youngest of three. So I was born into the Toon Mammals. Like, they were already gigging. you can find our music on Spotify. Both our are there. Toon Mammals. And we had normal childhood, we were in school and stuff like that. But on the weekends, especially in the summer, we would go and play festivals and stuff like children's music festivals.
And every once in a while we'd take a to California or somewhere to do like a premiere, a symphony of my dad's or do a musical that my dad wrote. There were several that sometimes we would do like the first act is, Boyd's Shadow. And then the second act is like a set of music from the Toon Mammals.
And Boyd's Shadow was also made into a uh, 45 minute long movie that won the Parents Choice Award
in North
[00:29:33] Michaela: Amazing.
[00:29:34] Becca: so we were like a fairly active musical family and my memory of it was I loved being on stage. I really loved. taking on the theatrical side of things. I really loved performing in front of people and I also remember being very serious.
It wasn't a time to joke around and my sister and brother and I would be like making jokes and my dad would be like, focus, we have to get through this. But I don't, remember resenting it ever. I don't remember feeling held back by it. In fact, looking back, I'm like really grateful that I had such a rich musical upbringing because that has been a huge part of why I've never felt like guilty during the periods where I'm like, you know what, I'm going to go for this period of time where I'm not necessarily making a huge profit.
It's like, okay well, if I can do it right now, I'm going to go for it I think it would have been harder for me if I'd come up in a family where it's like, you're being told there's this narrative that the arts is you're wasting your time and you
should
[00:30:36] Aaron: Mm
[00:30:36] Becca: Something that is, you know, whatever, which
Could also be true.
no, but it was, always like very supported in my household. That said, it's so funny, think you asked how it's like affected my perception of it as a mother. for some reason, I haven't tried to foster that or recreate it yet. And I think that's because I don't see, so Willamaya is my two and a half year old, I don't see her like, wanting it, I don't want to put anything,
On her that she's not seeking for herself.
I do see her gravitating towards visual art and so I try to make a space for that whenever I can
I see it as a way that she processes her feelings and has a sense of freedom and expression and I, think that that's really important.
[00:31:22] Aaron: Yeah, Mm hmm. is the same way. She, yeah, she loves to paint. She'll come in the studio and, hit some drums or play the piano. And
[00:31:30] Becca: Interesting.
[00:31:32] Aaron: for a minute, but we don't push any of that on her. If
[00:31:34] Becca: Oh, cool.
[00:31:35] Aaron: we'll, she can open more doors she's three.
She could absolutely love it one day and want to do nothing but that and the next day, she's like, I hate that. What are you talking about?
[00:31:42] Becca: Yeah.
[00:31:43] Aaron: Um But kind of across the board. Visual art is like a thing that she loves.
[00:31:47] Michaela: She's not super into singing like she sings sometimes but
[00:31:50] Becca: Yeah.
[00:31:51] Michaela: she likes to listen to music She does not let me sing at all.
she will ask to listen to my record and she knows which ones by name She'll be like,
[00:32:00] Becca: Wow.
[00:32:00] Michaela: old record
[00:32:02] Becca: Wow.
[00:32:03] Michaela: music and she's very specific But if I start singing along ever She gets so mad. She's like, yesterday we are on a loop where we only listen to Pink Pony Club, and Always Be My Baby by Mariah Carey.
we listened to it as like a 20 minute drive home and it's like those songs back to back to back to back to back, and I would start singing along. No, mom. but I was like, Georgia, don't you like to sing? It feels so good to sing.
And she was like, no, only on stage. I'm like,
[00:32:36] Becca: Oh my gosh,
[00:32:38] Michaela: I'll be curious to see what they're like when they're older.
[00:32:40] Becca: I remember Gretchen Parlato, a friend of mine, a superhero, saying something similar about her son, Marley, that if she was singing children's songs, happy children's songs, lighthearted stuff, it was fine, but as soon as she went into a heavier, more serious zone or like her own music, he would start crying and be like, no mommy, no.
It was
like
Too, intense.
[00:33:04] Aaron: Yeah.
wonder what the psychology is behind that, if it is like their emotional perception, like when you, actually like step into that, or if it's some kind of relation between you singing and performing is something that, takes you away.
[00:33:18] Becca: It takes you away. And it also shows you in different way. It's a different version of ourselves. And this sort of brings it back to our, conversation of you, Michaela, as the mother, but then there's also this other version of you that's very powerful. And it's you, Michaela, as the performer and as the artist.
And I think that can be like, Sort of off putting and scary to see even as a little kid. And maybe that's the source of our problem as a society is that it's uncomfortable for us to see a woman be anything other than her mama self.
[00:33:51] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. how do your
I guess, how does your older daughter
[00:33:56] Becca: Yeah.
[00:33:56] Aaron: being on stage, like
[00:33:58] Becca: Hmm.
she came and saw me perform in Illinois, this Broadway musical that I did for two months, a Sufjan Stevens music with like dance and it was incredible.
And she sat up in the high balcony and she was watching, you know, like a deer in headlights, just Oh my gosh, this is an incredible thing. Mommy's wearing butterfly wings and like singing to all these people. And then afterwards. She was really clingy and wanted to be in my arms and I'm talking to people outside and stuff and she was like really clingy And holding on to me tightly, which is not Totally her vibe and then when it was time to go Her dad had to like her away because she was like no like she felt I think We're on to something here with this like feeling that I've been Taken
away from her in some way because all these other people were
My energy like, it wasn't just for her, it was for like, however many thousands of people fit in that room, like
everyone was sharing and that's an intense thing for a two year old to share at that level,
[00:34:58] Aaron: I wonder if it's something, that as we get older, you know, whether it's your late teens or in your twenties or thirties or whatever, it's like when you start to just see your parents
[00:35:07] Becca: Hmm,
[00:35:08] Aaron: other people separate from you, other individuals, you know,
[00:35:09] Becca: ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
[00:35:12] Aaron: world.
I wonder if it's like kind of the first view into that. You know what I
[00:35:17] Becca: Yeah,
[00:35:18] Aaron: Oh wow. My mom is like another person. Just like all these other people that I see. Like,
[00:35:21] Becca: Yeah,
[00:35:22] Aaron: Cause I don't think Georgia gets super clingy with me after she's seen me on stage.
[00:35:26] Michaela: No.
And I was thinking about, cause she hasn't seen us on stage a ton, but she came to a festival in September and that was like the first time I First time in a while that she had seen me on stage where she like was running around And sometimes watching when I was
[00:35:40] Becca: hmm,
[00:35:40] Michaela: I remember she like ran to me afterwards and would be Clinging to me and hanging on me and stuff
[00:35:46] Aaron: would interesting, like during soundcheck.
Yeah,
[00:35:48] Michaela: she really liked to be on stage So yeah. a thing not singing or anything just being on stage
[00:35:57] Becca: In this light, I have a question for you guys. When Georgia comes home from, I don't know, is she in daycare right now? Okay. When she comes home from daycare, do you notice a difference in how her Crying or like 5 p.
m. Blues. Do you notice a difference between mommy and daddy? I'm curious
[00:36:16] Aaron: like easily identifiable. Yeah. Yeah
[00:36:19] Michaela: You guys?
oh. like
[00:36:22] Becca: and I've seen studies on this that for whatever reason Mommy well, I think she does it with both of us, but especially with me. She'll just be like The second she sees me, she'll be like,
cause it's, it, it's the safe place,
[00:36:37] Michaela: Yeah.
[00:36:38] Becca: mean, Daddy's her safe place too.
So I don't know what that's about. there's like a fussy thing that happens. That's particularly high with mommy.
[00:36:46] Michaela: she's pretty clingy with me at bedtime.
[00:36:48] Becca: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:36:49] Michaela: I always have to do bedtime and it's very hard for me to get out of the room.
[00:36:55] Becca: Interesting.
[00:36:56] Michaela: talked about this with other parents where the dads are like, yeah, bedtime is fast for us. And I was like, yeah, that's not cause you're doing it better because they, the children are different with their mom.
[00:37:07] Becca: Mm hmm. Yeah.
[00:37:09] Aaron: as like coming home. whoever goes and gets her and brings her home, the other person is also home just
[00:37:14] Becca: Yeah.
[00:37:15] Aaron: know, I'll either
[00:37:15] Becca: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:37:16] Aaron: will be in her office. I noticed around five o'clock, she just gets like really antsy and impatient to see whichever parent is working,
come and like Oh, interesting. Yeah. us.
as soon as she comes home, she gets out of the car and knocks on my studio door and like wants to
[00:37:29] Becca: Yeah.
[00:37:30] Aaron: out for a minute. And then. Same thing if I'm the one that brings her home. She wants to just go and say hi
[00:37:33] Becca: Yeah.
[00:37:38] Aaron: does that a lot. Are you done
[00:37:39] Michaela: working yet?
[00:37:41] Becca: Yeah.
[00:37:42] Michaela: Yeah.
[00:37:42] Becca: gosh.
[00:37:43] Michaela: your husband is also a musician
[00:37:46] Becca: Mm hmm. Mm
[00:37:48] Michaela: violist. Is that right? And a composer.
[00:37:52] Becca: Yes.
[00:37:54] Michaela: being both? Self employed musicians, creatives, where you have to like, do so much prioritizing of your own work working together in balancing each other's time and priorities, bringing children into the mix.
[00:38:09] Becca: I'm not ashamed to say that we had a couples counseling appointment this morning,
which I believe in, everybody doing, whether they're having
hard times or not. And of the key takeaways from our session this morning was that we are going to get a calendar dry erase board and put it on the fridge
[00:38:29] Aaron: Mm and have A weekly Sunday check in where we put in like key events for the week.
[00:38:38] Becca: So that we are aware of what each other are doing, which sounds obvious, but it's absolutely not. Like, Like yesterday I asked him three times or day before yesterday, I asked him three times, what are you doing tomorrow? And he was like, Becca, I'm playing at town hall. Like this is a big deal.
I'm playing at town hall.
Can you get this programmed in your brain?
so like getting on each other's radar for what we're doing and then also finding time for each other, which is nearly impossible during, especially like the first couple years of, you really have to schedule it
you have to not pass out at 8pm when you're putting the kids to bed
and actually like maybe set an alarm and be like, okay, we're watching a TV show together
as long as we can stay awake.
also just there's the logistical thing too, of When you get together and go through the schedule, you realize, Oh, we're both working, during pickup on Thursday. So either somebody has to cancel something or we have to find someone else to pick them up. You know, scheduling becomes so important.
[00:39:40] Michaela: Yeah, it's like the least sexy stuff Really?
to like get in order
[00:39:45] Becca: Truly. Yeah.
[00:39:48] Michaela: need to have actual meetings,
[00:39:52] Aaron: I will say we, share
[00:39:53] Becca: Mm
[00:39:54] Aaron: with
[00:39:54] Becca: hmm.
[00:39:55] Aaron: like generally have a good idea of what the other person's doing, at least like in the immediate days,
[00:40:00] Becca: not enough for us.
[00:40:01] Aaron: I, I, yeah,
[00:40:03] Michaela: There's still times though, where we're like. didn't you look in our calendar and like, no, I didn't see
it. Yeah,
[00:40:08] Becca: mm. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:40:21] Michaela: a kid .
[00:40:22] Aaron: It was like, oh, we're gonna do this are we ready to be this serious? We're married 14 years together. We have a kid like, this is a big step.
[00:40:29] Becca: Yeah.
[00:40:29] Michaela: also, Aaron is a Virgo
if astrology. is anything you're aware of.
He's very organized
[00:40:35] Becca: hmm. has its place and system, system, systems. And I am a clutter just like fogs my
[00:40:42] Aaron: brain so quickly
[00:40:43] Becca: Even just thinking about it, your thoughts went away.
[00:40:45] Aaron: Yeah, exactly. I feel claustrophobic. That's what it is
[00:40:48] Becca: Yeah.
[00:40:49] Aaron: that, word didn and I
[00:40:50] Michaela: am a Gemini
[00:40:51] Becca: Me
[00:40:52] Michaela: more. Oh, nice.
[00:40:53] Becca: And so has
my husband.
[00:40:54] Michaela: when's your birthday? Because I feel like, did June
[00:40:56] Becca: 14th.
[00:40:57] Michaela: Okay. And May 21st. But I feel like I remember that you were a Gemini. Now that you
[00:41:01] Becca: You're
barely a
[00:41:03] Michaela: Yes, you're almost
[00:41:05] Becca: a Taurus.
[00:41:05] Michaela: which I say makes me even more confusing because I have like the split personalities of Gemini, but I'm on the cusp of Taurus.
So I Mm hmm. Heheheheh.
than Aaron is. So he was particularly nervous. He's like, what is your calendar going to do to my calendar?
[00:41:26] Becca: Yep.
[00:41:27] Michaela: a lot of calendars that I just don't share with him that are like, why
anybody doesn't share
[00:41:31] Aaron: calendars? That's the key.
And if you use Apple calendars, I don't know if it's for Google, but if you use Apple calendars, you can change the color of somebody else's calendar
[00:41:39] Becca: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[00:41:42] Aaron: Michaela's all like nice pastel colors that kind
[00:41:44] Becca: Yep. I've done
that
[00:41:46] Aaron: Mine, are bold.
[00:41:47] Becca: are like a translucent gray.
[00:41:49] Aaron: So, So
[00:41:51] Becca: Heh. Heh.
[00:41:54] Michaela: know that he's playing at Town Hall.
[00:41:56] Becca: Yeah, what bothers me is that if his stuff goes in the calendar first, and then I add something at the same time as his, mine are half as wide.
his take up the full space because they went there first, and
then mine are like this little purple sliver within it.
[00:42:11] Michaela: Oh my god. That's not fun. We could go deep on the psychology Uh huh,
[00:42:14] Becca: the competition.
[00:42:15] Michaela: Yeah. Oh, there
[00:42:16] Aaron: is like this subliminal like, I gotta put this in the calendar.
[00:42:18] Becca: Yeah,
[00:42:18] Aaron: my time. And it's
[00:42:19] Becca: uh
[00:42:19] Aaron: we don't need more to keep score on.
[00:42:22] Becca: huh, we're right. in this together.
[00:42:25] Michaela: Yeah, Uh, to check each other of like, we both.
Work a lot, but we don't have to be even about the time we work I think about this, he doesn't really tour anymore, so like he's home, but I'll go on tour. And so I'm like I was just gone for three weeks, I should probably pick up some more slack when I'm home and like not have my full like work schedule anyways.
It's a constant juggling because monkey brain can take over and be like. But I don't have enough time.
[00:42:52] Becca: the keeping tabs never leads to anything good for the team.
But it's so
[00:42:57] Aaron: And then, I mean, as I would assume that you guys experienced too, it's like with young children, it's all phases anyway. So you finally get all these logistics workout, you get something that kind of works and then everything changes. kid is a year older, there's more activities, there's more things that they need to be a part of.
And so like what worked. Last year, it doesn't work and you're just like, Oh, cool. Great. Yeah. We were just like getting into this flow. That routine was really
[00:43:21] Michaela: feeling good and now it doesn't work anymore. Type of thing.
[00:43:24] Becca: That's the beauty of it too, though, right? That everything is long game. So that's also why keeping tabs is not. Your best interest because the whole point of marriage is that you're like, okay I'm down to do this for as long as I'm on this planet?
I'm down to put my energy and commitment towards this so that means that there will be times when you're really struggling and I pick up the slack and there will be times when I'm really struggling, you know, and there might be times when you're the breadwinner and there might be a, 20 years later, I'm the breadwinner, or maybe
like someone close to me and my family dies and I need to take a year off of life and to like process that.
And that's keeping tabs is like, it's not in your best interest because really, this long game is much bigger than that,
[00:44:08] Aaron: in my observation, it's having the awareness and the openness to. Zoom out and see like that part of the team like, even though we're self employed and that's, inherently being very self focused,
Out of necessity for what the business and what the career entails, but being able to zoom out and really feel like, you know, I'm saying like heart feel versus mind feel that your success is my success is our success.
What can I do to make this happen and it's a win no matter what it looks like.
[00:44:38] Becca: And two things can be true. You can be really passionate about wanting to support each other and that can still be really hard when it's happening.
[00:44:45] Michaela: for Mm Mm hmm.
and be like I am okay with this situation I just need a minute to like Express the challenge of this but that doesn't mean we need to change anything
[00:44:56] Michaela: I know we're almost at the end and I want to be, super mindful of your time, one question I really did want to ask you if you feel comfortable talking about it, because we've had, 80 some of these conversations and I've
[00:45:07] Becca: Mm
[00:45:08] Michaela: a lot of people, a lot of creatives and writers have different belief systems of how much they share in their work.
in their work and then share on their platforms and everything. And you've, one thing I've really admired is how much you've shared in your songs as well of
Process of losing your mother, specifically while becoming a mother.
[00:45:27] Becca: hmm. Mm hmm. Mm
[00:45:29] Michaela: felt like a natural extension of, of course, this is a part of how I process I've shared in my email to you that my mom didn't pass away, but she had a massive stroke when I was pregnant with Georgia.
she was, For all intents and purposes, gone for a long time and it's been now three plus years and it feels like she's just now starting to come back, but still, she can't travel, she's, has physical disabilities and, she had a severe brain injury.
So, that specific experience of losing a mother when you're in that time of transitioning to motherhood is one I'm really deeply attuned to and, and aware of and have appreciated the way that you've shared and I've wondered what are your thoughts and relationship to that if you've ever felt like. How much do I share, all of those kinds of questions, or if it's just no, of course, I'm going to do this.
[00:46:20] Becca: you. And I'm sorry that, must have been really disorienting and so hard to be, pregnant and to sort of need your mom more than ever and have that going on. the creative process. process of this album. there were, Steps first it was grief which is so hard to process. And it's so messy. And, ever since I was a kid, I've always, processed messy stuff through art,
it's like a space for that kind of messy thing to exist.
cause it doesn't need to necessarily be organized or clear. It can just spill out and you can it around and find your way.
And art started to come out of it naturally. And then. It wasn't until later from conversations with myself and with my husband and with my manager and friends and stuff that it was like, could this be an album?
And once that question was there of like, could this be an album? Then there's the implication that it will be shared. And that was the first time that it was a little bit scary to me
it's one Thing to put it. existence, but the idea of people then taking it in as a body of work seemed so strange to me.
This is so honest and messy And self focused.
like me me me me me this stuff that I'm feeling
I was a bit Maybe insecure about the sharing people taking it in and feeling it's too much
But I had to keep coming back to this reality that has to come out of me.
It can't stay inside. I won't survive that.
it was just too intense to like keep that grief in, And so it needs to come out. And I'm doing this anyway, and I can always decide later to not share it, but I'm going to just finish the process of making it. And then maybe I'll test it out with some audiences and see what reactions are like, or I'll just put it out.
And if people don't like it, then they can to another record of mine,
you know, like try not to make it too precious and,
[00:48:19] Michaela: Mm
[00:48:20] Becca: make that part Of it too. So be
focused during the art creating and then, don't be so selfish during the releasing of it. It's like, it's not about you,
yeah, I think that answers your question that it was definitely like the most honest, album that I've ever made. And this room is a guest room now, but it was where I made the album and I called it the womb room. Um, I had a pallet on the floor, and golden lighting everywhere, like salt lamps and stuff and some soundproofing that I'd made out of quilts and curtains and pillows, and it was very cozy and calm in here, and I gave myself full permission, any time the grief was too intense, that I could, lay down and rest I had to tell myself every day multiple times a day that that is part of the work
and that it's okay because there's sort of a guilt that Comes from the lull in productivity and I had to say nope this is part of the work songs can come from here too.
Um, and,
and, during that time, I'll just add my dear collaborator and close friend David Crosby passed
away as Well. Who, by the way, used to say you can tell if there's a Virgo in the room by putting your glass all the way at the edge of a table so that half of it is hanging off the table. To see who walks up and moves it back onto
[00:49:38] Aaron: Yeah. I can verify that I would be that guy,
Yeah.
[00:49:41] Becca: like,
Oh, excuse me.
[00:49:43] Aaron: wouldn't even say, excuse me. It'd just be in conversation
[00:49:45] Becca: The arm keeps coming
up. so he, he passed away during that window as well. And with him, when he died, as I was grieving him and I was missing him like hell, which I still do every day. But it wasn't the same, like messy, ugly grief that needed to be processed through art. If anything. Him being on the other side, I felt that he was even closer to me through the
Creating, I could feel him in my hands and in my head.
And, there was something about losing my mother. And I think something about the mother daughter relationship that is just so much more confusing when you lose and every relationship is different and mine was not easy. So it was like, there was a lot to process and to write about.
[00:50:25] Michaela: How has it felt since having it out in the world?
[00:50:28] Becca: Good. I think that the process of making it was so heavy that now it's just here's this thing I did, I'm proud of it, I'm ready to move on to the
next
you know. But it's felt good to play the music and people's reactions. I mean, everybody comes
From a mother, whether they know them or not.
We all have mother figures. We all come from a mother. We all, if we're lucky, outlive our mother, and so this theme of losing one's mother is universal and even if it hasn't happened, like you said, you can relate to it in other ways. And so it's been something that I've at every show, I've had somebody come up to me with tears in their eyes and be like, that moved me, So that's been special,
[00:51:11] Michaela: yeah.
[00:51:12] Aaron: Yeah. I'm interested in after that like, intense period
where you made your womb room and accepted your creativity. however it needed to show up without
[00:51:23] Becca: Hmm.
[00:51:24] Aaron: if that's influenced your creative process now
[00:51:27] Becca: Definitely. almost I've never done transcendental meditation, but something in the zone of a really meditative style of work where I'm not in control at all. and then I can always like organize it later, but from this record, I feel like I trust even more this idea that the art is just there and it's our job to show up and open the door and let it
The more we can surrender to it the more we can get out of it.
[00:51:52] Aaron: word channeling comes to mind
[00:51:54] Becca: Yeah.
[00:51:54] Aaron: you say that removing the self and removing the conscious or subconscious editor as it's coming.
[00:52:01] Michaela: well, thank you so much for giving us your time and speaking pretty deeply about a lot of stuff. I
[00:52:10] Becca: even after all these years haven't seen each other in, 15 years or something and we're,
um,
[00:52:16] Michaela: Yeah.
[00:52:17] Becca: nice to talk to you guys about art and parenthood and everything in between.
[00:52:21] Michaela: Yeah.
[00:52:22] Aaron: Absolutely. Thank you for taking the time.
[00:52:25] Michaela: It's great to see you both. Thank you so much for taking the time to support this conversation.
thank Yeah. That's my job.
Bye
[00:52:33] Becca: Bye
[00:52:34] Aaron: Bye