Paris Carney is a songwriter who has had cuts with the likes of Nick Jonas, King, Adam Lambert, Maggie Lindemann, and Joseph, as well as a background singer with The Jonas Brothers, Hailee Stanfield, Lykke Li. We talk about her start on Interscope Records with her brothers' band Carney, the ups and downs of years trying to find her unique path, creative diversification, and having a variety of mental health practices in your toolkit.
Paris Carney is a songwriter who has had cuts with the likes of Nick Jonas, King, Adam Lambert, Maggie Lindemann, and Joseph, as well as a background singer with The Jonas Brothers, Hailee Stanfield, Lykke Li. We talk about her start on Interscope Records with her brothers' band Carney, the ups and downs of years trying to find her unique path, creative diversification, and having a variety of mental health practices in your toolkit.
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:00] Aaron: Hey, you found yourself in another episode of The Other 22 Hours Podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Shafer-Haiss
[00:00:04] Michaela: And I'm your host, Michaela Anne. And since this podcast is not even a year old, thank you so much for checking us out if it's your first time, and thank you for coming back if you've listened to previous episodes.
[00:00:15] Aaron: Yeah. Those of you that are repeat listeners, we know there are thousands, maybe even a million different podcasts out there. So the fact that we're in your repeat rotation is really humbling. Chances are whether you're new listener or a repeat listener.
You heard about this show via word of mouth. Maybe a friend told you about it. Maybe you saw it on social media. And we have a simple ask that you share your favorite episode of this show the same way you heard about it.
Maybe it's on social media. Maybe you just text it to a friend to check out. that is the main way that we can get more listeners to our show. And the more listeners we get, the more guests we can get. And the more guests we get, the more ideas we can share back with you guys. So any little bit helps.
And we really appreciate any of it.
[00:00:53] Michaela: Yeah, and we're not your typical music promo show. We're not promoting the latest album, the latest tour, or the highlight reel of successes in someone's career. We want to talk about the in between times, what they've had to overcome to get to those highlights, what they continually overcome, and We focus on the behind the scenes tools and routines that they've found helpful in staying inspired, creative, and sane while building a career around their
[00:01:19] Aaron: art.
Yeah, and all of us know that there is very little that is in our control in this industry. There's a lot that's left up to chance. I think it was, MC Taylor from his gold messenger that said, it's like walking into a casino every day. And it's pretty much that, but things that are in control are our mindset, our habits, our creativity.
And so with all of that in mind, we invited some of our friends and some of our favorite artists onto the show and ask them the general question. What do you do to create sustainability in your life so that you can sustain your creativity?
[00:01:48] Michaela: Yeah, and today's guest is exciting for me. She and I go back a very long way.
We have very vivid memories of being 18 years old. We realized today we've been friends for almost 20 years, which is insane.
[00:02:00] Aaron: Yeah, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see white hairs pop out of my head in the moment when that is realized. But
[00:02:06] Michaela: Paris Kearney is our guest and she's an incredible singer and songwriter.
She currently writes for Disney Publishing and has cuts with artists like Nick Jonas and Joseph and Adam Lambert. She has been a backup singer for the Jonas Brothers, for Hailee Stanfield, for her brother Reeve Kearney's former band called Kearney. And we have a really in depth, incredible conversation with Paris talking about The challenges and the positives of finding your own space when you are surrounded by incredibly talented and highly successful
[00:02:40] Aaron: people.
Just having that so close to you when maybe your own career isn't going exactly how you had planned. She shares one like really humbling tidbit where She'd been living in L. A. and decides to move back to New York where they grew up, and she ended up getting a job being an usher in the theater where her brother was the lead in Spider Man on Broadway.
And just what a crazy dichotomy that whole thing was.
[00:03:05] Michaela: is someone who is constantly looking to self improve and this is the first time I've talked to her in a long time and she felt the same as she did when we were 18, 22 years old. Just really full of vulnerable honesty and Positive love that just emanates from her.
[00:03:23] Aaron: Yeah, I was honored to just get a few words in those conversation.
sorry about
[00:03:27] Michaela: that. We were definitely reminiscing for a little bit. . It's,
[00:03:30] Aaron: it's fun. You'll definitely get a few laughs out of it. Regardless, I don't wanna keep you from those. Without further ado, here is our laugh filled reminiscent conversation with our friend Paris Kearney.
[00:03:42] Michaela: this whole week I've been replaying so many memories and like the last time I saw you I can't even remember I feel like we were in our early 20s, maybe the last time I physically saw you, when you came New York, I think you opened a show for your brother at Bowery Ballroom and I sang
[00:03:59] Paris: oh My gosh I forgot about that
[00:04:03] Michaela: I didn't Earl play bass with you?
[00:04:07] Paris: I completely forgot about that Mikaela, that
was like 2011
[00:04:12] Michaela: I had a day job. I worked at Nonesuch at the record label cause I just remember meeting you
work
[00:04:20] Paris: Yes we like went to a bar or something
[00:04:21] Michaela: think so and I'm pretty sure that was the last time were physically together Cause we've tried a couple of times like when you've come through Nashville but haven't gotten together but over ten years
and we've known each other almost
[00:04:36] Paris: can't process
[00:04:40] Aaron: a few more gray hairs
[00:04:41] Paris: Honestly, it's that's too real really for me this morning
[00:04:47] Michaela: that just upset
[00:04:48] Paris: We're like no we're
still children
[00:04:50] Michaela: yeah weren't we just wasn't it just yesterday that we were like in the new school like cafeteria ordering stuff
and
[00:04:57] Aaron: I
[00:04:57] Paris: ate
[00:04:58] Aaron: know if I
[00:04:58] Paris: ate
[00:04:58] Aaron: went to the new school ever
[00:05:00] Paris: really
[00:05:01] Aaron: No
[00:05:02] Paris: That's all I was ever I was only there We went 13th Street because we had it in our dorm That's
[00:05:08] Aaron: what It was in basement or like that Is that okay I might have gone there once or twice but I lived at like Loeb Hall So like the only thing at Loeb Hall was 40s cigarettes entire
[00:05:18] Paris: wait 40s I talk about this Edward Fortyhands
[00:05:21] Aaron: yeah Oh yeah
[00:05:23] Paris: Rebellion
Stage.
[00:05:25] Michaela: But I remember there was like a cafe on
[00:05:28] Paris: Fifth floor
[00:05:29] Michaela: not the fifth floor Oh that's right It was the fifth
[00:05:31] Paris: school Was jazz school.
[00:05:33] Aaron: I remember I went there Yeah
[00:05:35] Paris: Yes and the coffee Yes Yes, I actually those were the good old days I don't know if you know this micaela but I drank red bull All of high school I was addicted to it And then I went to new school Vanessa who was in the program with us, she was like, that is so unhealthy.
I'm gonna force you to drink coffee You need to drink coffee Trade to coffee And now I'm addicted to coffee So thanks Vanessa ad
[00:05:58] Michaela: gosh Yeah I already had my two cups I can't
[00:06:02] Paris: he! Yes!
[00:06:03] Michaela: have have More breakdowns which I've already had today because we're potty training our year old
[00:06:08] Paris: Oh...
[00:06:09] Michaela: I Anyways the TMI details but I've already cried today
[00:06:13] Paris: No, Like I don't know how to process that yeah it's also
[00:06:18] Michaela: Disgusting It's
[00:06:20] Aaron: Yeah generally what is It's just generally disgusting
[00:06:22] Michaela: Okay So preface for our listeners who have no idea what we're talking about you have such an interesting career path and there's so many holes that I don't know about in the past 20 years we met at jazz school where we were both singers in the jazz program and in my impression at that time your thought was like Oh I want to be a solo singer and then all this other stuff has happened You quit to join your brother's band
[00:06:52] Paris: yeah
[00:06:53] Michaela: You joined your brother's band Karni your brother now is in Hadestown is that right still in Hadestown then you toured with them you put solo
[00:07:01] Paris: Not until I left the band Three years I was in the band And then touring like you said like I left New School and went immediately on the road We opened for a good friend of ours named Johnny Lang And my brother Reeve he was the only one signed to Interscope But he was signed to Interscope newly and a priority so we were all Stoked and you know, I'm 18 at the time like, woo we've done it And toured for a bit and then in 2008 I left the band I'll put in quotations but I left the band and there was like a bunch of complicated things that went down Not from me but like, behind the scenes management and that's when I started doing solo stuff I had written a song in high school that was terrible Of course your first songs always are and then had never written again So like when I left the band It was like the very very first time that I was writing songs on my own and playing guitar that's how I got into the solo
stuff That wasn't jazz because obviously I jazz singing
hmm Mm hmm I still do! Yes,
[00:08:14] Michaela: Yeah so then you did your solo stuff what happened in between to get you to where you are now where you're a pop songwriter like you work with Disney Publishing right And you have major cuts with Nick Jonas we Joseph who Adam Lambert and you did other backup singing So like tell us the abridged version of how you got to this place that you're in now
[00:08:39] Paris: Essentially after I started doing solo stuff as you guys I'm sure can both imagine I had so many almost deals like it would be like oh this label's interested and then it would be like actually no like, they've already fit that place it was a combination of maybe me not knowing what I wanted or being like do I like that person Like, there's a lot of moving parts or honestly a lot of it is like self worth like, do I deserve this Like, there's a lot of things going on and then, I would get approached by like, The Voice American Idol just emails do this and I'd be like maybe I'm not a good songwriter Like, all of that stuff And then I didn't stop writing and I didn't stop pursuing it But then I started playing these nights in L A this small club called Room 5 And while that was happening I met my husband Through a mutual friend and basically I continued doing that but in the real world we got to get jobs when we don't make money from music So, I started working at Nordstrom at the perfume counter and that was great It was great life experience and like I had, shows at night and people would come to the shows and I ended up moving to like Park La Brea and I was across the street from Nordstrom so I would walk to Nordstrom and then I would play my gigs Anyway Greg and I are dating at this time And he's touring so the funny irony is Andrew now
plays for Hanson bass player in Hanson and my husband was the bass player of the Jonas Brothers And so it was very like the connections very strange but he was already the bass player when we started dating and He had been since he was in the band when they first started They're all his best friends now all of our best friends
[00:10:33] Michaela: basically is the
[00:10:35] Paris: Yes No he is I would say there's five No honestly there's like six or seven really Six but they're the greatest And he himself was songwriting I wasn't pursuing songwriting I should mention for anyone but myself I was always writing for myself I was always writing and I was very it came naturally to me and I wanted to do it It wasn't like a hard work or anything and then He was songwriting for other people this is like 2010 I would be like man How do you do that like for other people like I just did not understand how do you write for people know what they want to say and Then Greg was on tour they'd been touring a ton and I was like you know what I'm just gonna move to New York I need to move to New York I'm gonna pursue other things I'm gonna quit Nordstrom my brother at the time Reeve was doing Spider Man on Broadway and so we had all these I guess connections in the
theater world and people were like you should do theater you know, you would be great for that And I was like really
I just wanted to be in entertainment that point I was like I want to sing I want to be on stage So I went to New York That's when I played my show Mikaela that you sang. With me. And it was fun and I had A great six months Actually no I did get crippling anxiety At that point in my life the worst that I'd ever had living in New York even though I've lived there I'm from there
You know I'm like very accustomed to that like pace of life but I just got crippling anxiety for whatever reason And Greg was like in and out visiting me in New York And then he proposed when I was living in New York but as soon as we got married two months later he was about to go on tour again with the Jonas's And we're used to that sort of life in we didn't expect anything different And then we went out to dinner with Nick And he was like Hey I want you to sing background vocals to me on tour And I was like then I got hired as their background singer toured with them until they broke up in 2013 that was like a really bad anxiety inducing time for me for a lot of trauma for my brother's band fear of like, not being good enough and All that stuff so that was it was beautiful But it was also like in a growing time of whoa I have to face the stuff that I'm burying
[00:12:56] Aaron: You're the time you were in the band when the band or
[00:12:59] Paris: when I was in my brother's band I had a lot of like worthiness not feeling good enough And then when I left but actually I got let go by the management which was really messy and crazy Basically they I think I've, yes, really, really tough because it was not my brother's decision but at this point I'm like I've healed from it so much but the main premise was management was like You being their sister is not sexy
That was the reason And I was like what that's why I got let go And it was like if you weren't their sister it would be okay If you were their brother literally those words came out it would be okay But since you're their sister it's not sexy it's not working And I was like what But then also the band dismantled there's a lot to that and there's been so much personal healing and don't think it's healthy to harbor resentment so I'm just like okay that was what it was obviously there's things you work through but at the time it was really hard and you know, singing background was really hard because I of course you're facing those sort of Wait am I back where I was am I good enough oh is this weird why did I get here Is it just because I'm Mary and to Greg Of course there's gonna be an element to that absolutely But I think it's all in like how you treat yourself and
I definitely was not treating myself In a loving way at the time but I grew a lot thank God Now like it was hard but now I'm thankful for what I went through
[00:14:29] Michaela: one of the things people ask a lot about on this podcast we're always talking about all the stuff behind the scenes that the public doesn't see like all of the messy stuff that can be really traumatizing and just how hard it is to continually decide Okay going to keep doing this and I'm going to find where my place is after I've been like knocked down time and time time again So one of the questions always is well what are the things that you did to
[00:14:56] Paris: Ooh, I love that stuff because that's the most important first I just had anxiety and so I was like crippled by it and I didn't want to talk to anyone because I just felt like that was weak I didn't want to draw attention to it thankfully in 2005 Yeah I found a therapist This is like years after all of this went down I found a therapist that was good, but also it was like a, it was like an interesting time in my life there were good things but I think the reality is also therapists they don't know you obviously they're not necessarily gonna know how to speak to you or what might trigger you or what For me was a lot of like I needed to be told I was enough I needed to be told that I could believe I was enough the first therapist was it's hard sometimes but I think we have to in this industry or like for us in particular in music we need to like have a front sometimes you don't want to
look like you don't have it all together because then seem weak you know, someone's like, well it's a hard business be okay with harsh criticism and you know, all of that you don't really want to be like I have problems also I will say this To me it felt like even though I had internal struggles they weren't presented outwardly And so I felt I couldn't play the card of well, I'm just a lunatic I'm that kind of artist I was too put together on the outside to, play that. that's not authentic to me So I'm, glad that I didn't play that you know, outwardly.
But basically therapy led me to new therapy I love Self growth I was that person in high school that was like the next year I'm gonna be better I'm gonna whatever it was at the time in 2001. Like, I'm gonna like, you know, clear my skin and like, and like,
hmm
work out and you know, all the time I just was always very Self Into that. Yeah. And so that I think is a gift too because I could self-motivate That being said after a certain point of being knocked down you do question like, am I supposed to be doing this is this the right thing And I have diagnosed depression and anxiety but depression was like the one that I think was so hidden that it was very damaging I was able to like, hide it and then, not deal with it essentially So, this is fast forwarding a lot but like, COVID really shook me in the sense of oh there's a lot of things I'm dealing with them But I there are blocks and like things buried that if I can get there I think that there can be real change And real
like.
[00:17:44] Michaela:
I was also going to say because I feel like what you were saying about the music business I think I've learned over the years that this business as well as many other industries uses the business as justification for Being really humans other so then there's this mentality of well if you can't hack it then you belong So you're crumbling because you heard some mean things about you then you're not meant to be in the entertainment business maybe that's true but then I wouldn't want to be in that business anyways But getting to the point where you can all of the work that some of us have to do to feel I don't care then but I'm going to keep doing the music part and let things happen one thing about you of we were friends in each other's lives at a very young age and then I've just seen each other from afar
[00:18:37] Paris: Yeah
[00:18:39] Michaela: I so vividly remember Early on with you like you always had such a magnetic positivity and enthusiasm for everybody But I I was close enough to you that I knew also the anxiety and the stuff inside and I remember So much that time that you came back and I was working a day job and I was like starting to play in like the folk scene in New York I was starting to get my first taste of struggling of where do I belong And the kind of creeping competition of okay am I worthy And I remember talking to you about it And then being like Oh whoa this is like a whole other level for Paris because I'm like operating in this even though it's New York City this little folk scene that happens in here and you your community was your brother on Broadway and your boyfriend in the Jonas And this is like like massive level that I think I would be like Destroyed
[00:19:38] Paris: Yeah. Like how to like, kind of like how do you size up Like in that huh
[00:19:43] Michaela: Yeah so and I
I remember even at that age cause I think you were like weren't you for a moment doing like ushering at the
[00:19:50] Paris: Yes! I forgot! Yes, I was ushering that's literally when I moved It's not a bad job just the context of it was pretty strange Because I was ushering for my brother's show on Broadway And it was like am I
in death
[00:20:08] Michaela: but the reality of like just because you're related and I connected to people who might have a direct income from their work and success there's like this weird mindset of like Oh well then fine you're probably even I'm like semi famous that doesn't automatically mean I have money to pay
[00:20:27] Paris: No Totally Totally And I think so much in the world we live in even then obviously it was lesser we can put a front that we have all these things and maybe you won't share the real day to day struggle And that's okay, you know, if you're trying to present and believe something in else for yourself but It is interesting when you think how we're looking at others and not knowing the real of their day to day life and Comparing ourselves thinking that we're lesser you're trying to make it an entertainment like you said Michaela it's not that Just because you know someone you Are gonna have an easy ride or make money Like at all
[00:21:12] Michaela: yeah so that was a heavy load You've
[00:21:15] Paris: Yeah
[00:21:17] Michaela: been a long a long So therapy helped and then what has progressed to help you and also like I would assume this is also just a daily thing for a lifelong journey of just how you stay grounded in what you're doing and then progressed into Prioritizing or focusing a lot on writing other
[00:21:38] Paris: Mm
[00:21:38] Michaela: while you're also surrounded by some very high achieving
[00:21:43] Paris: Mm hmm. I think in some ways it could go both ways It can be motivating and simultaneously very defeating Because you see very close to you all the possibilities in life oh wow that person that's amazing okay Maybe I can work hard enough or not even work hard enough Maybe I can passionate enough that I can break through these boundaries achieve my dreams But I think it's definitely a daily decision as we know it's like moods are changing every day and it's not Oh I found the way and then it's all perfect and that's just not the way that life is obviously But in COVID, I discovered a certain therapy called EMDR and that Honestly shifted so many things in my life just going through back to these memories that were incredibly traumatic for me I also had like, most people I come from a divorce family that had a very, very Bad divorce and it lingered and unfortunately has caused a lot of pain and hurt and for me just lack of safety and not wanting to admit that or not wanting to succumb to that and Like no, no I'm fine other people have it harder or something but I did emotionally have really really challenging things as a kid and so Going back and doing all that sort of inner child work
my brothers and I all started like child modeling as kids So we've been in the industry in some degree since I was two
[00:23:23] Michaela: Oh
[00:23:25] Paris: So I basically have dealt with a lot of projection since I was a child
[00:23:30] Michaela: Oh my
[00:23:31] Paris: and also like the possibility so there's contrast of hope versus defeat And I've been really thankful for the way that I've been able to Choose healthy things because I could have very well chosen unhealthy things And I have chosen unhealthy things like you know, drinking too much or self sabotaging things But I'm very thankful that I have for whatever reason the mind to want positive things and want good things And know myself enough to know when I'm slipping into that darker unhelpful tendencies but I also should mention before I even go deeper into that the songwriting piece of when I became a songwriter was really a fluke I was pursuing another project under a different name for myself called O'Neil Hudson I released some music I was like an artist Heard one of the songs and was in like the orb of my husband which by the way he transitioned into management He works for the guys on their management team now And he basically has been doing that for eight years And one of his colleagues played my song for an artist that they were working with And The artist was like I want to work with her So that's how I had my very first session is with an artist named B Miller And I was so terrified I was like I don't know if I can do this This is so strange And then she was wonderful And then the song actually she was sent to Hollywood Records which is Disney Music Publishing as well It's the same umbrella and the song went on her record It was the first song that I ever had with another artist and she's an incredible artist and at the time was doing a I thought just really innovative cool music and she continues to but anyway she had that song come out and then that is what spearheaded me and this is in 2018 spearheaded me into doing sessions with other artists and then I just fell in love with it and I didn't look back I still continued to pursue Projects that I was happy And felt authentic to me But at the same time I saw a path for me that was my own and that led me to meeting my manager her name's Sarah Stickle shout out she's the greatest manager ever and she managed me which meant just putting me into sessions with people and so I just started going to rooms Actually before that I will say I was very self sufficient and booked my
own stuff So anyone that's wanting to start out songwriting you really of course have to hustle dang hard at the start and just reach out to people
[00:26:19] Michaela: people It's
[00:26:20] Paris: hmm it is there are so many of us there's a bajillion of us obviously everywhere in Nashville London Sweden I mean, New York has a scene too LA is, of course I would say there's a lot of different styles going on but also More pop even though that
looks different these days It's not maybe what you would expect pop to be because it's such a range really like if you're looking to pursue Career in writing I think just reaching out to people On Instagram, messaging them That's probably the easiest way these
days.
[00:26:54] Michaela: you approach people that you didn't know personally
[00:26:57] Paris: I didn't really do that but people have done that to me and I have written with them cause usually it's, someone you know knows this person Like, I would say, obviously, to be careful and vet These situations but if like someone's a mutual friend with somebody you can even ask them like hey is this person Mhm
Okay I gonna be a strange position I've always done that Like, if someone writes me a message on Instagram the past couple years that I've really been doing this I will screenshot it and send it to my manager and we just have so much access these days in that way but it's important to Do your vetting of course
[00:27:34] Michaela: And on the flip not be restricted
[00:27:38] Paris: Yes of rejection totally and there are times too that I have not seen things and Then ended up writing with someone and gone back and been like oh my gosh they wrote me A year ago and I didn't know it's not that I was ignoring it I've heard this recently like Better to chase failure than chase success that sounds not as good coming out of my mouth as it did out of theirs
[00:28:05] Aaron: no I've heard the same kind of thing like there's such a fear of failure that's paralyzing in this industry if you set out and you like actually try to fail it's really hard
the fear is Oh I'm gonna reach out to this person and they're going to write back and they'd be like
[00:28:16] Paris: Yes. Yeah, like LOL Ha
ha.
[00:28:19] Aaron: yeah Like I don't know who you are I would never write with you You suck And I'm going to block Like nobody's to
[00:28:25] Paris: Yeah Yes. Yeah And if they do wow There's something going on there. Yeah, there's your answer too
[00:28:32] Aaron: Yeah Yeah
[00:28:33] Paris: But at least you have an answer. There you go. you tried I think that's, worth so much
[00:28:37] Aaron: Yeah I think it's also worth noting that I miss messages all the time I try not to I hate when people miss messages for me or like I'm like didn't miss the message You just me cause I'm
[00:28:48] Paris: Uh,
[00:28:50] Michaela: If you thought I was more important you would have messaged not not
[00:28:53] Paris: just not No, it's not. We all have so many things going on in our brains Constantly And things coming at us constantly That It's not necessarily personal Which I think is good to remind ourselves
[00:29:06] Aaron: Yeah everybody generally has the same kind of relationship with social media like kind of hate they kind of love it it's essential I need to use it But like I really hate And kind of icky but then I feel like everybody sees everybody else on social media as like being like Oh no they're just real and authentic and this is how they are And so if they're not responding me like that's just who are it's like no feels the probably swimming in doubt too I guarantee that person that you think is like trying to ignore you and overlooking you like they have good friends that muted on social too because they see their good friends are
[00:29:36] Paris: Yes. Yes.
A thousand percent Yes Oh my gosh Wisdom
[00:29:41] Michaela: in your today world of all that's happened in your life and feeling like you're in know a good spot with your work when you still have those creeping thoughts come in If you have a down day what do you do I'll be honest I was feeling great this week I was doing writing sessions We're back in the swing of our daughters in daycare So we're able to work without distraction And then out of nowhere last night I just started to feel like this creeping anxiety And it's like a physical thing that comes in And then my brain's like what are you anxious about You could be anxious about this and this And then it's A spiral and I'm like how do you stop it So we talk about all the different ways that people are learning okay this is what I do when this happens Do you have something or are you like me still figuring it out
[00:30:31] Paris: Always figuring it out like you Always, always changing the routine of it But recently in the past few months I've been really into affirmations And I know that that sounds to me at least icky honestly vocalizing these positive things But in the past couple months I've found Just different meditation sort of affirmations on Spotify This one person named Louise Hay she passed away I believe pretty recently but she was incredible lived to her 90s and her whole thing was just really the power of positive thought and how It actually is a choice and it's not gonna be easy to choose that being said I haven't spoken about this publicly but I am an open book because I do this all the time But I also started medicine last year for like anxiety and depression And that really was the catalyst for a lot of change for me It's a serotonin supplement called an SSRI And the amount that it shifted me was so positive because I went from actively performing and writing but going home and being drained and completely really Where I was going to find happiness and When I started this you know, I did a lot of therapy and then I did acupuncture For different reasons and then that led me to a psychiatrist I found a medicine that works for me For all of my different sort of personal Struggles I would say
and That change although I felt like there was a lot of shame to it to need something or No I can do this on my own I can do this on my own but there's a certain point that I think I got to which was Why would I suffer through this If there's something that can help me why would I do this to myself This is almost like, I'm torturing myself For some odd reason and so going on medicine then led me to a much deeper self love I'm constantly reading books that are on self love and self improvement And that really helps me and affirmations now that I have more of like a, clear mind I see how beneficial just speaking positively is and believing that you can reach your goals and it's possible
[00:33:03] Michaela: And just like your
Which is challenging and there really is such a stigma around medication and I I understand it completely because we have a predatory pharmaceutical companies and everywhere I look we're all medicated and I was very against medication for a long time and also because my parents were and we had a guest on this podcast who's a really good friend who is you know very Oh we're and natural and we do like spiritual healers and energy workers and therapy and all that stuff And then she shared that she started medication
[00:33:39] Paris: Whoa.
[00:33:40] Michaela: I've never talked about it but I started medication
[00:33:45] Paris: No way.
[00:33:46] Michaela: that conversation encouraged me to be open to it and I had a therapist ask if I was open to it and I switched therapist because I
[00:33:56] Paris: Ah! Whoa
[00:33:58] Michaela: and then the next therapist very gently asked and my other therapist was like she had been with me for years and had never suggested it but this particular time in my life my mom had a massive stroke when I was five months pregnant becoming a new mom it's just been an incredibly hard couple of years And both therapists were like you might just need a little bit of help for a short amount of time It doesn't
have to
[00:34:23] Paris: Forever
[00:34:24] Michaela: I started it last February and it felt life changing like I felt like I all of a sudden there was a fog that lifted that I before I was just going through the motions and everything felt sad Even like the stuff and Aaron witnessed all of this any good thing that would happen that I would have been excited for in the past I was like Eeyore get to play a festival that I've been waiting for 10 years who cares it's probably going to suck anyways Like how my therapist described it It was like a low dose of medication to help me choose a different neural pathway to go down but since I've been on it it's been interesting whenever I have chosen to share it the different reactions of people in my life that are like concerned concerned
[00:35:09] Paris: Interesting.
[00:35:10] Michaela: Or I've been in settings recently where something's come up about medication and people have been like Oh my God no And I'm like okay just to myself keep
[00:35:18] Paris: Yeah
[00:35:21] Michaela: But this is all to say to not promote medication but to say that we all need to seek out thorough research with care and help from professionals when we feel like we need help and that it might look very different for all of us and try to reserve our judgment of other people's choices because I was the type of person that would say hell no I'm not
[00:35:43] Paris: Yes
Yes thank you for sharing that I'm glad that we are in a similar trajectory at least in embracing it I think for me it was more Oh this means that I have a problem and I don't want to admit that I have a problem Um, yeah and like, the history of my family's experience with mental health and medicine I didn't want to be the same I wanted to be the one that could beat it but I will say one thing that really encouraged me about even just the science behind taking a certain kind of medicine which obviously is incredibly detailed to what somebody needs if that's something that is going to be an option for somebody But for me I was reading book on I think it was child healing work And I read that if you are raised in a scenario where you're incredibly hypervigilant and aware of everyone's emotions it decreases your serotonin And literally like, your brain cannot produce serotonin as well And the medicine that I'm on is a serotonin supplement and it truly has been life changing for me so I just thought that was so interesting to read it had nothing to do with my medicine It wasn't a book about medicine and of course there might be ways to access that More holistically And I think there are but there comes a time if you experience enough trauma in your life I think or just the neuro pathways going to that negative loop you sometimes do need something that's gonna just push you over to
be able to access the positive thoughts
[00:37:23] Aaron: I haven't taken any kind of medication for mental health or anything but I've witnessed the positive effects had on Michaela and her whole transformation And something that I see that is common between both your experiences and then also our friend Emily who's on an earlier episode is that you all have a history of doing the
[00:37:40] Paris: Yeah Good
[00:37:42] Aaron: you know my interpretation is you guys all are seeing benefits because it as a will help me get to this finish line know Not a cure all
[00:37:50] Paris: That is such a good point Cause it doesn't stop The work hasn't stopped
[00:37:54] Aaron: Right and medicine's not fix it for you but it's gonna give you more in my observation it gives you more of an field to for yourself
[00:38:04] Paris: Yes
[00:38:05] Michaela: I still have anxiety dips I have depressive dips I still cry on a daily basis but it all feels more manageable and like I'm not in a thick fog fighting my way which is what every day felt basically since my mom had a stroke it just helps feel like Okay I can handle this stuff and feel my range of emotions more purely That's what my experience has been
[00:38:34] Paris: Ooh I love that That's so powerful what a gift and to your point too it's not that I go around recommending people just get a fix but I do think for me if you're really struggling it would be interesting to look into all of your, options
[00:38:52] Michaela: Right there's lot of options So a of finding the right provider who works you you know to all
[00:39:00] Aaron: Well I think it's a lot work and finding just like whatever for for me like
Journaling helps owning my feelings and being vulnerable and talking with a group of people there to really helps um that's what works for me because I've done the work and I've noticed what works for me and what doesn't if I get to a point that those aren't really working anymore I'd try more and maybe eventually that'd be medication Maybe it wouldn't you guys obviously exhausted bunch of options Prior to medicine too
[00:39:26] Michaela: So and still have to do
[00:39:28] Paris: Yes Entirely And they and new things same Erin I, Every morning it's part of my morning routine a meditation practice either calming sounds or I've got like ones that are words it's just a tool I think all of these things are ways that can get us out of our own Heads and clear The gunk out
[00:39:50] Michaela: The though to do
[00:39:52] Paris: Yeah,
[00:39:53] Michaela: I was just telling a friend like I work with a business coach and she also works with a lot of emotional stuff around it and a month ago We like set some boundaries together for myself and it was like Delete Instagram every Monday for full 24 hours and don't look social media And then journal for 10 minutes same time every day I did it for like three weeks and it was amazing I saw how much calmer I felt how much more focused I felt It three lasted weeks
[00:40:26] Paris: Mm
[00:40:26] Michaela: I find a million excuses for why oh I forgot to do that today or oh I deleted it but have to go on
I have to
[00:40:32] Paris: Right!
[00:40:33] Michaela: like the constant I I'm trying to accept I'm never going to be someone who's to be like yes I journaled every day minutes for the last 30 years no I probably did it for two weeks and then months I did did I another three weeks and then
[00:40:50] Paris: because we're all so different with even just our levels of tolerance or discipline or challenging to start habits especially ones that are good for you which is so strange or things that might you But I think that I've done on Instagram I just have 15 minutes a day a limit personally I'm so in my own world that It's not as much a struggle for me To make that a habit I think But I do think that just having that limit is just a good reminder oh it's done Okay The time is done Okay and of course you can click an hour more and stuff
like that. Yeah.
[00:41:27] Aaron: I was
[00:41:27] Paris: Ignore but
[00:41:28] Aaron: actually pay to time I have time limit on mine some days like cool Yeah my time's up I'm done And other this days I'm like
[00:41:37] Paris: sometimes I get,
[00:41:39] Aaron: in video Come on What are doing
[00:41:41] Paris: Sometimes I do but I Also get so maybe now at this point too I think I've had it two years now the limit Like oh Yeah I have other things to do I have better things to do things that are productive for me and loving to myself I was also wanting to say that diversifying I think as a creative is really nice and having things outside of either what's making you money or your like, true goal which is outside of that I think It's not easy but it's been helpful to have a lot of creative side things Like, I've been writing books I've been writing novels that I want to pursue that as well But it is something for me that gets me lost into a different kind of world and uses a different part of my creativity That
it's just a different part of the brain but it's still very fun and inventive and creative So that has been really cool to have sort of, it's newer for me And it's really fun to just Branch out and let my mind create outside of my daily routine
[00:42:45] Aaron: Yeah Just being able to create sake of you know you don't have this thing hanging over the top like well this or like you know I have to do this quickly or much
like I need to make Just
[00:42:57] Paris: Yes Yes
Although I do get into a bad pattern of being like but now I need to make money I, I do
kind
of, I, I end up being very, and maybe we have to have a little bit of that cause we're creating something out of nothing So there is an element of like, innovate but Yeah
there's a balance of, making it all about performing and an achievement and that's a hard balance for me
[00:43:21] Michaela: Yeah finding other ways to feel creative even not feel things that feel fulfilling that have nothing to do with meeting life goals or your your money goals or your goals We hear that a lot from people and I feel like you also it's so easy to get caught up in your day to day of oh we haven't done the thing that I love to do that has nothing to do with my career and reminds me that I'm not just a songwriter and performer so that my whole identity isn't wrapped up in that and then feels the rejection or accolade much more intensely but thinking about Working through the hard things in this creative career do you remember It was like probably one of our improv classes where we had to scat and soul fedge
[00:44:05] Paris: Wait, what's SoulFedge again? Cause I
forgot Ooh It
[00:44:10] Michaela: it didn't scar
[00:44:12] Paris: Wait, what is SoulFedge?!
[00:44:14] Michaela: Do Re Mi
[00:44:15] Paris: Oh my gosh, wait, yes, yes! Dr. Harper. He made us do SoulFedge, right?
[00:44:21] Michaela: yes yeah
[00:44:22] Paris: No, that, honestly...
[00:44:24] Michaela: I will never forget a class where one of us always cried always cried It like vocal I it was like vocal rhythm something where it was just singers and we were scatting solfege And was so terrifying because he'd be like comping chords like your turn And you'd be like doh doh doh doh
[00:44:43] Paris: doh Just doh doh
[00:44:46] Aaron: doh I'm getting
[00:44:47] Paris: bay
[00:44:48] Aaron: here
[00:44:50] Michaela: you You and I always sat next to each other And I remember I think one day you were
[00:44:56] Paris: Really?!
[00:44:56] Michaela: crying we
[00:44:57] Paris: Did I cry?!
[00:45:00] Michaela: the do do do do do
do
[00:45:03] Paris: hey hey
fact that I had access to crying then makes me happy. Cause I had, I don't cry anymore. I mean I do sometimes, but it's very rare. what's so funny is I remember that as being funny. but I, that must be some sort of self preservation
or
[00:45:20] Michaela: someone else crying. That's amazing. Maybe it's been imprinted in my brain that it was someone else crying, but I, you were always next to me. And I remember like we were all so and all of us cried at one point because we were just
[00:45:33] Paris: No wait, you know who I think cried? I actually think it was Vanessa.
[00:45:37] Michaela: Probably. We all cried.
[00:45:40] Paris: it around. for some reason I remember laughing cause he just looked so cute too when he was doing it, cause he would be like, on the piano, like da da da, and I would be like da, I mean obviously I wasn't good
[00:45:50] Aaron: nobody is
[00:45:52] Paris: Ha
[00:45:52] Aaron: unless you're Louis Armstrong Ella
[00:45:53] Paris: da da, right, right, and also like, Why,
[00:45:57] Michaela: soul fudge. So it was like laughing or through it just the
[00:46:03] Paris: yes, just say doe non stop.
[00:46:08] Michaela: Yeah, I remember, I remember being on the phone with my dad one time in college cause also like my parents paid for my school and new school is insanely expensive. I think my dad was pissed off that I was like being traumatized and damaged by the school that he was spending so much money on.
And he was like, god damn it. He was like, you think you can't sing now just because
you can't scat like
[00:46:31] Paris: Yeah to hear that. I like to hear that. Although, I'm sorry he had to pay for that. Yeah.
[00:46:38] Michaela: know. I mean, but I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have known you
[00:46:42] Paris: Yes well there you go.
it's
it's true. Especially Aaron. I will, yeah, I'll take
some love but
[00:46:53] Michaela: Man well, thank you so much for agreeing to do this, for sharing so much. I do think it really helps to hear from people who, are perceived in such a positive light that like, We all struggle as well. So all So
[00:47:07] Paris: Yes, it is. we're all on the journey. Gotta love each other, give light to each other, positivity. You guys are amazing. I'm so happy to
[00:47:15] Michaela: Thank you
[00:47:16] Paris: been
a part of this.
Thank you!
[00:47:18] Michaela: Paris Thank you so much, Paris.