Seth Walker is singer/songwriter, guitarist, author, and painter who grew up on a commune in North Carolina, has released 12(+) records, has toured and collaborated with The Mavericks, The Wood Brothers, Paul Thorn, and Raul Malo, amongst others, and wrote a book titled 'Your Van is on Fire," about the life of a touring musician. This conversation centers around mindfulness, presence, and awareness, and we touch on his nomadic creativity (having lived in NC, Nashville, Austin, New Orleans, and NYC), listening closely because peace speaks much quieter than anxiety, shedding the energy from the audience after the show, pointing towards the joy, and a whole lot more.
Seth Walker is singer/songwriter, guitarist, author, and painter who grew up on a commune in North Carolina, has released 12(+) records, has toured and collaborated with The Mavericks, The Wood Brothers, Paul Thorn, and Raul Malo, amongst others, and wrote a book titled 'Your Van is on Fire," about the life of a touring musician. This conversation centers around mindfulness, presence, and awareness, and we touch on his nomadic creativity (having lived in NC, Nashville, Austin, New Orleans, and NYC), listening closely because peace speaks much quieter than anxiety, shedding the energy from the audience after the show, pointing towards the joy, and a whole lot more.
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:00] Hey, and welcome to this week's episode of the Other
Aaron: 22 Hours podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Michaela: and I'm your other host, Michaela Anne. And we are on episode 108, and this
week we are featuring our conversation with Seth
Walker.
Aaron: Seth is a
singer, songwriter, guitarist, painter.
Author from North Carolina originally and currently, but via
Austin, Nashville, new Orleans, like every major. New York, New York, the whole
Americana circuit musically speaking and not
Americana music, but like, American roots music he has put out like 12 plus albums. He has a book called Your Van is On Fire about
touring life and being,
a traveling creative. And he's toured
with the Wood Brothers, the Mavericks, Raul Malo of the Mavericks [00:01:00] Paul Thorn, he's a freaking collaborator with Oliver Wood and John o Ricks both of the wood brothers.
And he has. Quite the story that he shares with
us.
Michaela: Yeah. And we got to talk a lot about his upbringing, which he grew up communally in sharing a house with another family and really dug into how that has shaped his approach to life
and touring where you're constantly living in collaboration with others.
talked about how intentionally moving from town to town, the different things he was seeking in those places and how it impacted him musically and creatively,
Aaron: how people or places can bring things out of you.
Michaela: Yeah, and one of my
favorites is the constant challenge as a musician where
you're always planning ahead, how to stay in the moment and be present mentally and emotionally. And my new favorite catch phrase from Seth Walker. Point towards the joy.
Aaron: there's a lot of mindfulness presence, awareness talk throughout this episode.
But as always, there are also topics that we cover that come as direct
[00:02:00] suggestions from our Patreons, and that's because they get advanced notice of who our guests are gonna be as well as an ever-growing, changing, evolving list of other. Patreon type behind the scenes things to deepen the community and the talk that we have on this subject.
It is also the sole way that we get financial support for the production of
the show, which can be significant even with a show our size.
So if any bit of that sounds intriguing to you, there's a link below in the show notes.
Michaela: And if you are a visual person, this conversation as well as all of our other episodes are over on YouTube and go ahead and click that subscribe button if you're on the YouTube platform.
all of these little
things are very helpful to uh, guarantee our growth and survival.
Aaron: Yeah, as always, thank you for being here with us and without further ado, here is our conversation with Seth Walker.
Thanks for making time to, to come and sit with us. Where in the mountains are you? You're not in Asheville anymore, right? You're outside.
Seth: North Carolina, which is about 20 minutes outside of town.
Michaela: Were you [00:03:00] impacted by the, flood?
Seth: yes. But
luckily I live up on a hill, so I didn't get flooded out or anything,
but,
Seth: just like, right, right down
the way. I live on a little creek and it just sw up. And that morning I
remember looking out the window and. Seeing the trees kind of rag all and, and but honestly, guys, I didn't even, plan on it at all.
I don't think I'm alone
Michaela: Really?
Seth: you know, They said it's
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: up through Tallahassee or Pensacola and up to, I thought we might get some wind and rain, but that morning I went down, there was like freaking trees and cars coming down our little creek. Took out the
Aaron: Yeah.
Seth: that leads up to about 50 or so houses back in here.
Wow. Definitely a morning.
Aaron: Yeah.
That's crazy. Were you stuck on your land for a while?
Seth: I, we couldn't get outta here
for about seven
days, I guess. far as the bridge goes. Didn't have power for about six weeks I know, It was, it was wild.
Aaron: Did you stay in your house that whole time?
Seth: my [00:04:00] landlord and neighbor luckily uh, has lived through hurricanes in Houston, so he had this freaking like. Armageddon
generator up there know, with a big ass
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Seth: Buried in his yard. So I could go up there and get water and whatever, you know,
I needed to do.
He, He's awesome. So he was helping out everybody. 'cause all these people that they, couldn't get water. Most of us were on a well, so we, couldn't
Aaron: Yeah,
Seth: out. But my dad, he lives about a mile from me.
Michaela: crazy.
Seth: I couldn't call him and I couldn't get over the creek to get to 'em.
And then
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: third day,
somebody came up to my house and they're
like, there's an old guy. Looks like an old version of you, is down at the bridge for you. And I, was like, oh, shit, that's bad. And I, ran down there I yelled at him across. I was like you, all right? She said, I'm alright.
You alright? We yelling across the bridge. I said, alright, we'll meet here tomorrow morning
Aaron: Wow.
Seth: AM and have coffee across the bridge.
Aaron: Wow.
Seth: we're okay, but so many, so many folks not [00:05:00] near as fortunate.
Aaron: Wow. And does your mom still live in Asheville
and your sister? Yeah.
Seth: uh, and my sister lives
in
Aaron: Yeah.
Seth: Asheville. So, you know, My dad and I are, just a mile from, from each other, separated by none other than Gladys Knight. Yeah, she lives right. She lives right there.
Michaela: Oh really? in my brain, I was Like wait, is that a, euphemism? Is it like I'm like, oh, okay. He means really Gladys, me actually. Yeah.
Seth: a,
A state of being in Gladys Knight. Yeah.
Michaela: Yeah. Yeah. That's, the only thing that separates the deep bond I have with my father.
Like,
Aaron: is she there often? Like, Do you see her around?
Seth: I've seen her a few times. I, still haven't met her yet. you know, I'd feel like,
what do you say? I mean, Kind feel like Chris Farley or something, when he was talking to Paul McCartney
um,
Michaela: Yeah.
Seth: but there was one day I was driving home, this is a lesson for me and that I need to just chill, be
more [00:06:00] patient I don't know.
I was coming back from somewhere and I was ready to get home and this car in front of me was going so slow,
like 10 miles an hour down our little road.
I was like, huh. And it's Gladys. I basically cussed out Gladys night. That's not a very good
first, not first start, but
Michaela: I think about That,
a lot. Driving our daughter to school, if I ever like get annoyed with a car, I'm like, oh, I should check myself because what if this is another, parent taking their kid to school for whatever, reason. I'm getting annoyed, but I'm always just like. I have no idea What this other car is. going through.
And also I might know them And I might see them in a few minutes when we both get to drop off. So like, yeah. Yeah.
Aaron: So all of this that we've touched on is just like such a great little microcosm of everything that I wanted to talk to you about this. Like you have your family close by all of whom play music.
You grew up playing music together. You guys still get together and play music, and I am not surprised at all that Gladys, Knight lives in between you and your [00:07:00] dad. 'cause your life seems to be full of the craziest, coincidental stories, a lot of which are in your book. Your van is on fire.
we toured a fair amount for a, was a year there or so. I was never not shocked by stories you would come out with.
Seth: Yeah.
Aaron: Um, I guess just kinda wanna start like, please correct my history. You, guys all lived on like a commune when you were born, is that right?
Seth: well,
I was about three years old my folks this other couple, Jim and Susan Walton. were just friends, just buds.
Jim and Susan were going to buy some property out in rural North Carolina. I and they were like, Hey, do you want to just come with us and go check out this land? And just, I guess my parents were like 21 or 22. They were a little bit older. They were about eight years older or anyway, so they went out there and they were like, man, this is, pretty cool.
You know, you know, Country living and the ideology of
living off the land, seemed
appealing
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And then turns out they were
like maybe we could buy some property out here too. And then we could be neighbors. And then they were like why don't we [00:08:00] just.
Buy a bunch of land and we'll have two houses, and then we'll have a garden in the middle. And then I guess that turned into after maybe some wine turned into, building one big log house. Jim and Susan, they had three kids and I have a sister, so it was nine of us.
and, they
Michaela: Yeah. In one house.
Seth: you know, with no carpentry chops at all. I don't know how they did it but they pulled it
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Seth: and, and we lived like that community for 13 years.
Aaron: Wow. So until you were in high school,
Michaela: Why did that end?
Seth: I think it just, like many things, it kind of run its course. 13 years is a pretty damn good run,
Aaron: Yeah, for sure.
Seth: so thankful for those years so informative in so many ways
Aaron: yeah.
I mean, Talk about creativity as life. That's a pretty creative way
to live, your parents and Jim and Susan. Choosing to live that way is definitely like being creative with resources and approach. um, And I assume like from the conversation you had, music [00:09:00] was around and.
Y'all played and sang and
Seth: uh, classical music. I mean, My mom and dad are both Suzuki teachers, so
Michaela: mm
mm-hmm. and my sister they started her on violin when she was about three years old, which is. That's kind of the deal with Suzuki. I started playing the
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Seth: maybe four or five.
We played oddly enough, Jim and Susan were not musicians at all.
she was a nurse and he was a pharmacist, but they were magic they were just, there was something about that. That polarization too that, seemed to balance them out The whole
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: the dynamic of the age difference, you kind of half a generation gap between them and somehow this
Seth: on the turntable. specifically ironically, Texas country music, so a lot of Willie Nelson records and Guy Clark records and stuff like that.
Jerry, Jeff
Aaron: Yeah.
Seth: all [00:10:00] that as a kid.
Michaela: I mean, growing up with. So many other people around. I think a lot about like lifestyle of choosing to be on the road a lot. And you're someone who has historically toured a lot, right? correct me if I'm wrong, but where you spend a lot of days out of the year, a lot of years on the road, and that means you're in close quarters with.
Other people and that can be very challenging for some of us So how has that growing up with, not just your own parents and your specific nuclear family, but other people that I'm assuming became like family but weren't blood related, but what that kind of like living in collaboration with.
Multiple people and sharing space. If you're conscious of how that informed your relationship to touring or if it just never seemed like anything you've thought about.
Seth: good question. definitely, adapting, you know, being, fluid with, touring is like the only way gonna work. And um, you know, with nine of us living [00:11:00] there. Not counting all the other folks, I mean, it was a scene, man. I mean, Like we had a lot of friends who would come.
And so it was like this, floating amoeba of energy that you can't control.
Michaela: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I was, pretty young I do remember at the same breath, feeling the power, the strength in numbers
are you, someone And especially as it's translated to touring, are you someone that feels like you have to get away from the people to kind of collect yourself or regroup to then and also be creative? Or are you very like able to be creative and get your energy with lots of people around?
Seth: need silence Lots and Lots and lots and
Michaela: Hmm. Okay.
Aaron: Mm-hmm. time.
Seth: Just you know, a lot of times I don't even listen to music,
you know.
Seth: One thing that I struggle with out there is just energy fields coming at me all the time. Not only my, [00:12:00] you know, all the stuff I'm thinking and feeling, but I, absorb a lot,
you know? Um.
Aaron: yep.
Seth: you know, with my
band mates or with the audience you know, the sound man.
I'm really working on the constant practice is this idea that I'm not responsible for anyone's feelings
other than myself,
you know?
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: a big one.
Aaron: What does that practice look like? tangibly like in your day or while you're on tour? That mean carving out more time? For yourself? Does that mean like
Seth: Uh, out?
one practice that I've been doing with
it actually is trying to. guess it's the
Chinese thing where they have the three, like in Indian, the seven chakras, right? With ancient Chinese way is just three. You know, Like your gut one, your heart and your head one.
And what I was realizing is when I'm out there on the road, when I'm suffering it, I'm, absorbing all this energy into my head and I'm intellectually trying to figure it out and process it and think [00:13:00] for others, and control and all this. And if you're all up here, you're gonna be top heavy. You're gonna be off
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Seth: answer your question, Like the, my practice would be like to take it here, Take it in my lower so I can be a lot more grounded when I'm navigating through it.
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Another cool way
is to you take a like, imaginary zipper and you zip up right here and you take it
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: lip and then lock it, and you take the
key and you put the key in your pocket
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: you got that key.
Hello. Protection. I don't know how you, want to describe it, but wrapping yourself in light or whatever that would help you when you're out there and all that noise and scattering.
Michaela: 'cause when you're, touring, especially when you are the headliner and you're taking a band with you depending on if you're, in a van, if you have a tour manager, what kind of level the o operation you're running. Aside from like taking in the energy of the audience and each night of the [00:14:00] show, I found It was always challenging to not take in everybody in the van and are they feeling okay? Are they happy to be here? Are they mad about where we're stopping for lunch? Like, All of that stuff. And I.
got to a certain point, just really learning how to directly communicate with band members and be like, these are expectations.
I cannot read your mind. I'm not gonna spend any energy trying to, 'cause I've done that for years. And if you have anything you're upset with, please come to me. ' cause I, will not know and I'm not gonna try and guess anymore.
Seth: I mean, if we keep, If we keep thinking for others and, and think not only for your band mates and what they want to eat for lunch or if they're upset or blah, blah, blah. I mean, I think
that's a great McKay. Just I mean, communication is key,
you know, you have to communicate with yourself. Navigating with your band mates and, your audience too. You can't think for them. I mean, We're gonna be tired.
We,
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Seth: To think [00:15:00] for an audience, man, we're gonna be tired.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Seth: it or do they, all these guys on his phone, he's not
Aaron: guys on phone?
Seth: blah, blah, blah.
Aaron: Yep.
Seth: texted
somebody that's in trouble. Maybe he's texting Gladys Knight. I don't know.
Michaela: Yeah.
Or maybe like, maybe he's
Aaron: texting somebody to come to the show. 'cause you're missing out. Yeah. But like in our, in our head we're like, he hates it. This guy. Yeah,
Michaela: And now I'm like, maybe they're texting the babysitter like, 'cause they got kids at home and they go to Jet. Like, But Yeah. when you're on stage you're like, oh wow, they're so bored.
I'm not interesting. They hate what I'm doing. And It's, just like, it's so taxing. You can't. do that, and then you're also distracting from your performance and to its detriment. Like then, you know the people who are really enjoying it, you're making it worse for them. But it's such a mental, I feel like there needs to be like a bootcamp for touring musicians how The training camp? Yeah, training camp for touring of like, an HR department of how do you communicate with each other? How do you run it? [00:16:00] how do you stay mentally and physically healthy throughout?
Seth: I think that's the great,
Michaela: we should do that. Yeah.
Aaron: Like Have like a yearly spring training in February. Mm-hmm. And like, I don't know, in Texas or something, you know, before South by, you know, have everybody out in the hill country.
Yeah, Yeah. Get everybody work off those uh, winter d you know, stacking The van, having to,
having to fit Tetris problems.
And
like,
Michaela: it could probably prevent quite a few, alcohol addiction, all sorts of things that come from coping.
Aaron: Wake up in the morning, they have a schedule for the day, but 15 minutes before, everything that's on the schedule, you gotta throw a wrench in it. You're like, ah. so we gotta run over here real quick. And, oh man, this guy, sorry, bass player Mrs. Flight. So we gotta go over here now.
Seth: true. Yeah, it's just, kind of like getting back to what we're talking
about with the commune. you just gotta be fluid, as long as I've been doing it I, weird, it's like a. It's like this control shit. these neurons, like this hardwired stuff you want to control the situation and that might actually [00:17:00] come from like this kind of like a primal of protecting yourself,
Kind of feeling like, okay, I've got to control this.
Because there's danger out there. Like, you know, You go out there to get food, go kill a bear, there's gonna be danger out there or kill whatever. there's gonna be
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: so we're still conditioned in there thinking that it's gonna be danger, it's gonna be fearful of you're gonna Try to control that.
And that's something I'm trying to rewire.
Aaron: Yeah. I mean That's something we say on here a lot is that the majority of the things in this business, you know, and specifically using the word business, are outside of our control. When we talk about the art, I. All of that is within our control, what we create, how we create it, all of that.
But then you try to monetize that and you try to pay your bills with it. And all of a sudden, most of that is outside of your control and it's mading. And you get to that place that it is possible to pay your bills with it and make a living. And you're lucky enough to do that year after year and you, you build this reliance [00:18:00] on this.
For your livelihood, you know? and then, you know, you get further into the rabbit hole and then
Seth: Yeah.
Aaron: for me, the fear gets bigger. ' get to a point that like, there's no turning back. The only way out is to keep going through and you're like, okay what do I do now? And so you gotta balance like you said, this primal fear, stress.
I need security, predictability, steadiness.
You need to fight that and hold that at bay enough to be able to think clearly and creatively on how to get yourself out of this.
Seth: that also creatively can mess with you too. because we like to eat.
we'll find something that might work, you know, like
a song for instance that might work. People, oh, I really like that. Do like that song. Next thing you know
you have to be careful with that stuff because then you'll start setting the trap for yourself and, kinda get what I'm getting at there with like, oh, that works. I'm gonna do that again. I'll Keep going back to that. Well, And the
Aaron: Yeah.
Seth: you're, you're not, following it.
Michaela: it's so easy to justify because like you said, we all like to eat, [00:19:00] we need it for survival. Also then the ego is at play of like, it feels really good when you make something that a lot of people respond to. Then it feels really good. And then also it makes you feel more secure financially when it's working.
So you're getting work and you've got, you're hearing yes, and you're getting festivals and you're, income is rising and then you're like shit, I gotta do that again. I think it's a trap. And then if it doesn't happen again, which For most people you can't recreate that all the time.
There's anomalies of course, like the Taylor Swift but even she thinks the scale just goes up because I read interviews with her where she feels like her record reputation was like a failure because she didn't get 10 Grammy nominations.
'cause that's what, once you get accustomed to things. So I feel like that is such a. Challenge in this business of following your creative path and not letting the need to survive
it too much. I find that particularly hard 'cause I'm like, oh Yeah. I finally have [00:20:00] gotten, you know, the festival booking that I've always wanted for 10 years.
I've hoped I would get this and I finally get it and like, I had a great year. And then, oh shit. Well What about this year? Nothing's happening this year. You're three years out from a record cycle, you've already played all those festivals. There's nothing new on the table, so you're not gonna get those bookings this year.
Your income is gonna be different. have you learned, is that just a challenge that You accept is gonna be there for the rest of your life, or have you learned any ways to kind of navigate that?
Seth: it's just a constant practice. You know, Because what we're talking about these conditionings or these things, I mean, it's deep. it is just not something you can just switch on and, and, find a new pathway with.
it's just like any kind of, it's like meditation practice practicing your guitar. Like you have to, physically, sit down with yourself and I call it regroup again.
To not get caught in, in those traps because your ego is, is, and your
insecurities are just, at the surface, and [00:21:00] boy
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: can have, their way with you. it's a daily thing. I guess I'm just completely schizophrenic 'cause I, I
just, I can't seem, every record that
I do is completely different in a way. So I'm always restarting, regrouping again, just by the nature of my music and my art, I kind of,
I'm kind of forced to not be stuck to
some way or some pattern that's, that's,
Aaron: I was, gonna ask about that just ' you've lived in every major music center in the South, Correct me on the chronology, but like, you know, North Carolina to, was it Austin? Nashville, new Orleans. Nashville again,
Appalachia.
Seth: I moved to was uh, Jacksonville, Florida, my uncle, my dad's broke. He was a jazz bass player and a great hip dude. And that was the first place I kind of flew the coup to, and then I realized that. I was so into the blues, Texas blues, and then I, I moved to Austin and then Nashville you're right. Nashville and New Orleans, New
York, back to Nashville, and then
Aaron: the whole Americana circuit
like,
Seth: [00:22:00] I told you I was schizo.
Aaron: Well, what was the impetus for that? Was it like chasing. Music. Was it trying to force your hand and shake things up? Was it running away from something? What
Seth: Uh, I mean, The first one to the trip to Austin
was, you know, I was 23 and I was just
on this pilgrimage, you know, to, myself through the music. I didn't think about it at all.
I just went, move to Nashville. I had been in Austin for about 13 or 14 years, and I had released five records there and I was starting to, tour around a little bit Texas and starting to tip my toe out.
And I met Gary Nicholson this songwriter in Nashville, started writing with him. I wanted to, get back to your question I, wanted to just test myself and. Get out of this little rut,
the belt bubble thing. and then when I got to Nashville it was wonderful.
I learned a lot about what I wasn't as, which, as what I was during that time. I remember writing some songs I didn't [00:23:00] believe.
Seth: And that's why I moved to Orleans to almost unlearn,
that's a good place to do such thing. get back to the root
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Seth: sort of some of the impetus for me to move around as I did.
Aaron: Yeah. to me in my. Perspective, there's this weird dichotomy of if you're a front person, if you're an artist, you can kind of live anywhere, right? Because your career operates
nationally, globally. You travel, for your shows. But then there's also like this fear needing to be in a scene in a community and like if you move, you're uprooting and starting again.
So I just wonder how that. Felt to you? is there continuity to it or did it really kind of feel like having to start over every time?
Seth: it didn't feel like I had to start over every time. Because by that time, as you said, Aaron, I mean, I had developed, a national circuit, and I would go out on the road and so when I was in these cities, I wasn't really trying outside outside of the Austin scene that's where I, I would play four or five nights a week all around Austin, you know. so I never did that
Michaela: [00:24:00] Mm-hmm.
Seth: of the other cities. In New
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Seth: I didn't even play that much I just wanted to be around it, that
Aaron: Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Seth: Of the, just the music, just the whole rhythm of that city.
I wanted to be around that. So I never felt like, I had to start over. As we alluded to earlier. Mikayla, you asked me if I wanted quiet, and
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Seth: To New Orleans, yes, I was absorbing it, I didn't have a big social scene, a social network of people.
Michaela: I feel like it's such an interesting question of like, how place, influences our creativity are we inspired by the city that we're in? Or, the nature that is surrounding us. And then of course the community. And if you're collaborating and you know, what that has been like for you, 'cause correct me if I'm wrong, you've been collaborating with Oliver from the Wood Brothers, right?
And how has that kind of influenced your creativity in living these different places and now living. Out in the woods
Seth: Yeah. Being
Michaela: with Gladys.
Aaron: [00:25:00] Yeah. When's, where's that collaboration?
Seth: on a plan. You guys gonna have to help me
figure something out. in Nashville specifically, I went there to become part of this songwriter community. one of the big reasons why I came, because I wanted to be surrounded by all that.
Seth: all these experiences inform, The person that you are, and obviously, you write what you are.
To the New Orleans thing informed me greatly because
I just love so many
different types of, music and different types of rhythm that was probably the most, informative place I lived
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: of the melting pot the culture.
we live in Nashville, but, I'm like, months go by that I don't. Write with people or collaborate with people. And then have other seasons where I'm writing with people a lot, which if we lived elsewhere, you could just be like, Hey, I'm gonna come to town for a week and book a bunch of writing sessions. So everyone's creative personality is different. So I guess that's kind of the question of like, if you find it at this point in your life, beneficial to be removed from.
Michaela: a music city [00:26:00] especially, there's also a difference between New Orleans, which is like a cultural music city and Nashville that's very much a, a music business city where that felt even different Moving to Nashville from New York that all of a sudden in Nashville you're like, you're not just hanging with a bunch of musicians, you're also at the bar with.
Booking agents and you run into your entertainment lawyer at the grocery store and you get to know the writer and editors from Rolling Stone and NPR and they're your friends. And it's like, a melting pot of industry people that can feel, they call
Aaron: that a work conference.
Michaela: Yeah, Yeah. But it's life when you live here. Yeah,
Seth: everything's a write yeah.
Michaela: Yeah.
Seth: yeah, yeah. Um,
Michaela: Yeah,
You're like, I went out for coffee and I just ran into my lawyer, so I guess I gotta write this coffee up.
Seth: mean, I, I guess where I am in my, life right now I really,
It might be just the tempo of the, schedule and the touring, et cetera, that I really, like being here. It's good for me
Michaela: Mm. [00:27:00] Mm-hmm.
Seth: like, For instance with, with Oliver we write in little.
spurt.
You know, I'll come,
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: That far for me to come over to Nashville I'm up, and
down with my writing. Like for instance, I have a new album coming out in a couple weeks, so
in the last.
Almost a year. I, I just haven't been any, kind of songwriting mode. I've been, you guys know how that goes,
I will say that do miss the ease of being able to. call up. and just, Hey, yeah, I got an idea.
Aaron: Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Seth: Have some coffee. about it
Aaron: But now. we got Zoom.
Seth: Oh, now? Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron: got Zoom. Now we got Zoom.
Seth: some friends over, over Zoom? Yeah.
Michaela: I have my first one scheduled I, haven't done that yet, but it's with a friend. Mm.
So
Seth: I've written a couple songs with Ali, just over um, text, a lyric idea.
Aaron: yeah.
Seth: Remember, I, I was,
there was a song on one of our records called No Bird. And I wasn't even planning to write a
song with Oliver. I just wrote him a text.
No Bird on the Wire. I don't know why I did. And he wrote a Lineback and I wrote a [00:28:00] Lineback and he wrote a Lineback. And next thing you know, we had kind of written a little poem.
Aaron: That's cool. I didn't know how that's how you guys wrote that. Sweet. yeah. They've done a bunch of Zoom rides, and I don't necessarily love them. I'm not able to, get into the
back and forth. it feels like kinda like doing your homework, with somebody that's not in your class.
You're both doing homework together, but they're doing like algebra and you're doing like chemistry. Yeah.
Michaela: I wonder though if like the relationship cause you were like writing with people you didn't necessarily know that you like it would get set up with from your sync team. Where I'm writing with one of my very close friends, so I feel like I'll report back.
But yeah there's, there's comradery there. it's probably gonna go okay. Just, Yeah.
It's all
Seth: all a, rhythm and chemistry and,
Michaela: yeah.
Seth: like, a little, we're different, versions of ourselves whoever we're around. some people, are a lot more sensitive to that than others.
Michaela: Oh Yeah.
I think so for sure. Mm-hmm. Especially with, writing and creative work. there's different people that I might be nervous or [00:29:00] intimidated, like I've thought, if I ever got a writing session with Lori McKenna, I'm like, would I even be able to write like I, you know, might be crippled by fear or maybe I wouldn't.
But you know, like, Yeah. you show up differently based on your history with the person, your relationship, Your mood, that day, if you had coffee.
Aaron: Yeah. you're in tune with yourself and understanding like what you need and what you're looking for, you can then be intentional about who you reach out to.
To fill That need to pull That out. you know, kinda like you were saying about, cities, you know, you intentionally went to New Orleans to like get That
Seth: yeah.
Aaron: funk and that swamp and that, you know what I mean? so you can be intentional about that with collaborators and people. And people and places.
Michaela: Yeah,
I mean, You had intentionally texted that to Oliver 'cause you intuitively knew he would respond in a certain way, in his way that you were open to. You didn't have to be like, Hey man, I have this idea that maybe is you know, you [00:30:00] just like texted him a line and get that kind of flow.
Seth: you know, the longer you go, you kind of, recognize your tribe. People that are
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Aaron: Mm-hmm. true. Mm-hmm. we're always conscious of time. There's one, question we like to
ask. The advice question being maybe it's something that somebody has told you along the way that continues to resonate or something that you would've told, 17-year-old Seth that was, leaving North Carolina for.
Jacksonville, Florida. When you're first getting into it what would you tell your younger self?
Seth: Whew. Uh, What do I tell my younger self? this sounds, cliche, but you know, it's just
do not think
about the next thing, the next lick or the next song or the
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: City or the, you know, or just, I'm constantly with that.
Even just yesterday I'm going on this big
tour coming up and I was trying to plan.
I mean, Yes, you have to plan.
you have to, you know, you, you gotta be ready. But I, was actually in my mind, already stressed out in the San Francisco airport.
Michaela: Yeah. [00:31:00] Yeah. Oh yeah,
Aaron: I know. I know that already there Yeah.
Seth: you know, make a list. but be present when you're
planning instead of
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Seth: being there.
I think that could
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Seth: serve,
us all. When
you're already in ahead,
there's just no way you can be in tune with the source, The spirit.
Aaron: A hundred percent.
Michaela: We don't know.
you saying, I was already Stressed out. Like I've been grappling with that of oh my God, I've got these dates and the travel, it's gonna be this way. And then I'm like, wait, I don't actually know how it's gonna be.
It could be great and easy and you just, you don't know.
Seth: have,
Michaela: It's good to just be open.
Seth: to take the, take your question one step further is point it towards joy. Point it towards it. You have to be
Michaela: Mm.
Seth: with like, man, it's going to be, killer. It's gonna be great.
it's like a, it's a novel waiting for us
Aaron: Mm-hmm. write.
Seth: And if we, are always thinking it's gonna be a shit show, then
it probably will.
Aaron: man, I was thinking about that, near the, turn of the, year. People were like, oh, just try it. How [00:32:00] bad could it be? what if you flip that? It's like, just try it. How good could it be?
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Aaron: how good could this get? changing one word and to me it just, it
really opened me up.
Seth: you know, woeful and
anxiety we have to remember is. So addictive it vibrates at a real quick clip. as artists and,
you
Aaron: Yep.
Seth: or People, we're going oh, I'm going over there to this anxious feeling because it's, over there going, on.
It's gonna be awesome,
Aaron: Yep. It's gonna be terrible. You're gonna love it.
Yeah.
Seth: And then this peaceful one it's quieter. it's a lot better it'll get you a lot further The bell doesn't ring as loudly
Michaela: Yeah. that's such a, sign of growth to me. I relate that a lot of, like life changed for me when I realized that what I thought was excitement and butterflies when it came to people like relationships situations, situations, was actually. Anxiety and a red flag. [00:33:00] When I stopped chasing, when I would get that, like revved up feeling of oh, I gotta go to that, thing to try and like, get in there or be with that person, or whatever it is.
When I, started instead going, Ooh, I'm getting that revved up feeling, okay. I need to stay home and like balance myself and
ground myself.
Seth: I mean, your, uh, Yeah.
wrote a book called the Body Says No.
Michaela: Mm
Aaron: mm
Seth: you everything you need, you know?
Michaela: yeah. we just confused it. We just were not, we were just misunderstanding the messages. But I love, what you just said and also that's a beautiful way to end of point towards the joy.
Seth: Yeah. toward the
Aaron: Yeah. Yeah.
Man, Seth. Thanks for taking time outta your day to, sit with us and chat with us and
Aaron: share,
share some things you found.
Seth: a long time. It's really cool to be on here with y'all. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you, man. Thank you. We'll catch you soon. All right. Bye. [00:34:00]