Tyler Ramsey - former guitar player for Band of Horses - has released 5 solo albums before, during, and after his stint in the band. We got to chat with Tyler about everything from surfing the seasons of creativity with patience and acceptance, his decision making process behind both joining Band of Horses (leaving a solo career) and leaving the band (private jets, selling out arenas all over the world), finding the right venue for your music, not just your ego, demonstrating a creative life path to your children, and so much more.
Tyler Ramsey - former guitar player for Band of Horses - has released 5 solo albums before, during, and after his stint in the band. We got to chat with Tyler about everything from surfing the seasons of creativity with patience and acceptance, his decision making process behind both joining Band of Horses (leaving a solo career) and leaving the band (private jets, selling out arenas all over the world), finding the right venue for your music, not just your ego, demonstrating a creative life path to your children, and so much more.
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Hey, and welcome to this week's episode of The Other 22 Hours Podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
And I'm your host, Michaela Anne, and this is the second year of our podcast, and we are so happy to still be here, and thank you for being here with us. Yeah, we are keenly aware that we can't continue doing this show without you guys and without you being here.
[00:00:25] Aaron: So thank you so much. And we're also keenly aware that maybe a lot of our listeners being in the music world don't understand that streaming royalties are different for podcasts than they are for music. As abysmal as streaming payments are for your music, it is even worse for podcasts and they don't pay a dime.
And so with that, we are turning back to you guys, our listeners for a little help in continuing this show. Most direct way to do that is we have a patreon We have a community. We offer advanced notice of who our guests are so that you can submit questions and have them answered directly a whole lot more going in depth into what we talked about into this show.
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Put it on social media. Send it as a text. Just play it for somebody. It's a great way for us to grow our audience and grow our community and be able to continue having great guests on the show.
[00:01:24] Michaela: And one of the things we really pride ourselves on is that we are not music journalists. We are musicians ourselves.
So we feel like our conversations are a little bit different than other interview based podcasts I feel like we're really sitting around a table, sharing the honest realities of what it is to build a lifelong career around your art. And as we all know, building that career contains a lot of things that are outside of our control.
And so we like to keep these conversations focused on what is within our control. That ends up being our habits and routines and mindset and our creativity in general. And we boil that down to the question. What do you do to create sustainability in your life so that you can sustain your creativity?
Today, we got to have that conversation with Tyler Ramsey. Tyler Ramsey is based outside of Asheville, North Carolina. He's 20 plus years into his solo career, but 10 years as the guitarist for Band of Horses. he's now five solo records in and We just got to have such an interesting conversation with him about the differences of playing on massive stages, massive festivals, and then the smaller, quieter listening rooms and how a lot of times it's not what your child self may have thought was the absolute dream.
Tyler makes a great point of really paying attention to where your music fits best. Not everybody writes songs that are going to work in Madison Square Garden, that are going to work Saturday night at Coachella, even though as a kid you might have, guitar player magazine posters on the wall or whatever, that might not be where your music is best and that doesn't serve yourself, it doesn't serve your art, it doesn't serve the audience.
Where, maybe a nice listening room where the vibe is thick and everybody's there and present is the best place for it and to really Be aligned with that and seek that out. Yeah. And we touch a lot on continually going back to the why of our motivation for pursuing this career, especially when you have children and modeling that life and also being really honest about the seasons of creativity and not being in a phase or an era of a flow and routine.
And. accepting that that's a part of the seasons of creativity. For sure. And if you watch our show on YouTube, you know that we shoot our episodes from our studio that I built here in Nashville. And Tyler shows up in his creative space that he built in the mountains of North Carolina, and I have space jealousy.
So if you're all inclined, tune in on YouTube. But with that, here's our conversation with Tyler Ramsey.
[00:03:57] Aaron: you're in North Carolina outside of Asheville. Is that correct?
[00:03:59] Tyler: Yeah, I live in we live in Candler. So we're out in the country.
Yep.
yeah, just about 15 miles from Asheville.
[00:04:07] Aaron: yeah, I lived in Asheville for a little more than a year back in 2005. Yeah, so I lived like it was a 10 minute walk from what was green life at the time And I guess now is a Whole Foods or whatever.
[00:04:19] Tyler: Yeah. Yeah,
[00:04:21] Aaron: was great.
[00:04:21] Michaela: A very different Asheville.
[00:04:22] Aaron: Very, yeah, very different.
[00:04:24] Tyler: Yeah, for
[00:04:25] Aaron: had a four, four bedroom, two bathroom house right there. We paid Maybe a thousand dollars a month for you know in rent very different.
[00:04:32] Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. That's I came here in the early nineties and I've been here pretty much ever since other than a couple of little times I ducked out of town. But yeah, the first place I stayed, it was like 500 a month. And it's like a big giant, Montford upstairs of a Montford house. So yeah, that's it's changed.
[00:04:51] Aaron: And where are you guys? You guys are where?
we're in Nashville.
you grew up here, right? Or at least high school you lived here?
[00:04:57] Tyler: Yeah, let's see, the summer before, my freshman year of high school, we moved from Libertyville, Illinois down to like right Brownwood.
Okay.
to Brown, I went to Brownwood high school. And yeah, it was also different there. It was there was no cool springs or whatever.
That was all just like fields and there was some like abandoned old houses back in the woods. I remember there was like an overpass where Cool Springs is that just had trees growing on it and different time. So
[00:05:26] Michaela: Now it's just so many malls and stores.
[00:05:29] Tyler: I can't, I come there and I can't find my way around. I don't think I can find the house that I lived in without a decent search,
[00:05:36] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah, we've been here for a decade and anytime I go downtown, I'm just like, am I in the right, on the right block? It looks different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know every time like, just getting to find the station in because you know When we moved here, it was like that was the only thing there and that was just ten years ago And now it's
[00:05:53] Tyler: Yeah, it's like the, that Bugs Bunny cartoon where the city builds up around the little house that refuses to move. I think that, they're stationed in still in the same building, right?
[00:06:02] Aaron: Yeah. Oh, yeah
[00:06:03] Tyler: but it's buried
[00:06:04] Aaron: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Same building. They didn't add 10 stories to the top of it. It's just that single story thing. It is
[00:06:10] Michaela: that tiny little thing with a bunch of high rises around it. And they still have
[00:06:13] Aaron: their parking lot, their little gravel parking lot. They're holding strong.
[00:06:16] Tyler: Yeah.
them.
Good for them.
Yeah.
[00:06:18] Michaela: Yeah. Speaking of change, to just dive right in,
where are you at in your life of, I know you're putting a record out, but in your journey of, this career aspect, what's it feeling like for you right now?
[00:06:32] Tyler: Yeah, the record came out a couple months ago and I'm in an interesting place. so I was in band of horses for 10 years and after that I put a record together called for the morning and the gears started turning again and things started to work and then, everything stopped and I had to stop touring and I was home and like everybody else.
And, so the breaks were put on after I just had felt like things were starting to roll. I felt like I got kicked down and, and then I, wrote all the songs for this new record and really decided I was just going to go big and get Phil Eck to produce it and make a big record at least for once, in my career, I would try like using a producer and taken a big leap of faith.
So right now it feels like In a way, it feels like I'm just starting again. you know, and I know that that happens to a lot of people in their careers. They go through these waves of, success and then things tend to fall apart or you're you finish a project and you're confused as to what's next.
And I feel like. I made album that I'm super, super proud of and I'm rebuilding all around it to make it work. it's me getting out on the road like crazy and, doing everything I possibly can to make sure people hear, hear what I created.
And that I am able to keep doing this, because it's it gets harder. It gets harder as it goes along. It doesn't get easier. I don't think so there's that and then I'm a, I've got two children and we live out here in the country and that's, where most of my head is most of the time is trying to be a good father and good husband and like I feel like this part of my life is the most important part of my life is obviously being a dad and being, husband and, creating a an environment where my kids are going to. Grow up happy and, have everything they need. but then, the opposite side of that is that I'm, going out on tour a lot this year and, and I'm going to be away from home a bunch.
And it's just kind of, I'm in a interesting place
[00:08:27] Aaron: Yeah. Is touring, do you tour this record by yourself or are you traveling with a band?
[00:08:32] Tyler: It's going to be a lot of different things. I just got back from a long tour where I was out with an old friend of mine who plays pedal, steel and guitar. His name's Brian Landrum. so we did a whole run out to the West coast, just the two of us. and then I've got, things come up in the fall that are going to be with the whole band.
And I played last night, I played a solo show and it's just whatever. I can make happen at the time.
[00:08:56] Aaron: Yeah, putting a quilt together.
[00:08:57] Tyler: Yeah.
[00:08:58] Michaela: do how do you in your mind reconcile that push and pull of, the necessity and also the desire of touring to support your record and also the fulfillment of if you enjoy touring and performing and what that does for you, balancing that with then also the.
The challenge of being away from your family and how do you, doesn't feel too personal, how do you, discuss that with your kids?
[00:09:23] Tyler: My wife's super creative. were both creative, slightly reclusive people. But the goal I think is to show my, kids that that you can be a creative person and that can be your path in life. and that can, put food on the table, or it can put a roof over your head.
I don't ever pretend like it's not hard work, it is work, and it, My son's about to turn three, my daughter's about to turn 10 she's drawing and reading and super creative and playful. And I want her to know that that's a path you can stay on.
You don't have to like shut that all down and, work your whole life you can follow what feels true to your heart. And that's really important to me. But it's hard, man. It's hard to leave. I get really emotional leaving them and, tour can be, it can really take it out of me like, to be halfway through a tour and know that I've got, a week and a half left before I get to like, snuggle my kids and hang out.
You know, it's a tough trade, but keep me doing it are like the fact that it now at this point in my path I'm doing what I have a hundred percent of my heart in like I'm out singing the songs that I poured myself into. and it's also the fact that I didn't leave myself another career path.
There's no other option really for me at this point. That I can think of that would make me satisfied or happy. So it's like this, this is where I am in my life. And I still love it. I love what I'm doing. But it is it tears me in half to leave the house for a couple weeks. Especially with my son and, knowing that if you're gone for two weeks at this age, it's like you're going to come back to like, all these new things.
These things that you might have missed. that's really challenging. But, I'm working it out as I go.
[00:11:03] Michaela: a lot of these questions that I ask and the whole premise of this podcast is completely selfishly motivated because I want to know because I'm always trying to gather information for Myself and our family are, your youngest and our daughter at the same age. She's going to turn three in June.
And she's our first and only, and I've spent my whole adult life stressing about how I could be a touring musician and be a parent. And leaving Children behind. I've always combated this like outside perception that being an artist is somehow inherently selfish, that we're, consumed with ourselves.
And so therefore going on tour and leaving your family is like. So selfish. And I've been grappling with this forever. And my dad was a submarine captain in the U S Navy. So he was gone for sometimes six months out of the year and we wouldn't speak to him at all. And I've talked to my mom about this because I've been like, but there's so much more forgiveness in that.
I think societally, because it's seen as this like duty and this call to service
and my mom was like, I mean, that could be bullshit to my mom was like, my mom was like, I could frame it that it was selfish of your dad he enjoyed going out to see but why is that? bad to enjoy what you do if it's something that takes away from your family.
This is all to say to try to like remove some of, the guilt and like be exploring this idea and also really honor the beauty in what a life seeking understanding through music and art, what that does to you as a person, and then what that does to your family. And your children who witness that.
[00:12:49] Tyler: I can think of quite a few parents that are, gone a lot that work just day jobs. and then if you're working a day job and you come home, you're exhausted you're not there present with your children.
That's one of the things I think about when I'm gone is like, all right, I could, I might be gone for two weeks, but I'm home for a month
And I'm really home, like I'm out taking them out and doing fun things or like running around in the yard or gardening or doing all the things.
So it's, I know that feeling of like. is this a selfish pursuit to be doing this? But, what else am I going to do? First of all, but we all have to work and like, make a living and take care of our families, you know? So it's like,
Just different ways to do it and whether or not it feels selfish at the time, I don't know.
definitely, battle without myself sometimes. You know, When I'm away and my wife's running all over town, like going to dance classes or, pick up and drop off at school and, going to appointments for my son and things like that. It's just, it's real easy to feel guilty that I'm like, across the country, like getting ready to play a show or something.
I don't know. it's all challenging. And it's, I think it's just part of being a creative person and, and trying to raise a family,
[00:14:02] Aaron: Yeah, absolutely. And you, touched on something about, being phase of your life and your career where you're like, able to 100 percent focus on something that fulfills you, following your music and making your art. And there's a lot to be said for that, and just like you said, like demonstrating that way of life is a valid, viable way of existence in the capitalist society that we have, to your children, I saw some Jim Carrey clip that, you know, everybody was passing around for a while, where he was like, my dad punched a time card every day, you know, nine to five, and got laid off when he was like 60, you know? He, he did what was safe and what he thought he should do, and he still got laid off, and was still like, stuck at that age, and it's like, you don't know how things are going to go.
And so, following what is fulfilling, you show up in a certain way when you are filling your days with things that are fulfilling and in your purpose, that is a way that is hard to quantify. like you were saying, the quality of how you show up for your kids. For your family.
[00:15:00] Tyler: since they're born, I want them to be happy all the time. I just want them to be happy. So why not show them a path that. Can carry them down the road. If my daughter's going to be an artist, or a writer or an actor or whatever, I want her to just chase after it and be happy her whole life, that's, that's what I want for my kids.
And like, I've gotten a lot of joy out of this path that I've chosen and a lot of difficulty and, trouble. And, but it's always been satisfying to me, to come back around and find like the reason That I'm doing it like if it's like I write another song that I'm proud of or that I want to play for people or I play a show and I talk to people afterwards and they come up and tell me what maybe a song of mine is meant to them and their life, all these reasons keep bringing me back to like, staying with it and like continuing to do this, yeah.
I want to show that to them. And I want my daughter and my son to know that yeah, that it's hard and it's never, there's no guarantee in anything you choose, like you, you don't have a guaranteed path, even if you think it's all spelled out for you.
It's not gonna probably, there's no road that just is clean and clear all the way.
[00:16:12] Aaron: For sure, correct me if I'm wrong, you had a solo career going prior to Band of Horses, is that correct?
[00:16:19] Tyler: Yeah. my first. Kind of singer songwriter record I put out in 2004,
And I had been doing a lot of different projects before that. I had like other bands that I was playing in and, my own project, which was more like instrumental kind of music. but I started doing, writing songs around, 2003, maybe 2002.
I just developed like a, kind of a rhythm for that, like where it would come in waves and I would, be creative and writing, and then I'd be documenting it and putting out a record. And I, so I put out a self-titled album in 2004. And then 2007 I put out another one called A Long Dream about Swimming Across the Sea.
And that's right at the time when I met those guys and joined that band. So the that record and ceased to begin came out at the same time, and I was able to do both at the time. I was able to, open some shows and play my new, my new record and then. Turn around and come back up on stage and play all the songs off a cease to begin and all that stuff.
And then like, yeah, I think started getting a little difficult and challenging to find the time you know, my own personal stuff, but I still, I put out another record I think it was 2011 called the Valley Wind. And, always had it going on, whether or not I had the time to promote or go out and tour on my own stuff.
That was what got to be more challenging. wasn't really able to support that Valley Wind record very much. And, but then I kept it going and put out for the morning, like right after I left band of horses pandemic. And now this record.
[00:17:51] Aaron: Yeah. Talk about peaks and valleys. Yeah, I'm interested in you mentioned, staying grounded in the why you're doing what you're doing and why you're, you know, can you talk about how, or if that kind of ebbed and flowed and shifted from doing the solo thing to, that getting crowded out by being in Band of Horses and the schedule of being in that band and machine and then Conversely when that time period passed and now you're you know back to having your solo thing Like did you question your reason of why am I doing this or what am I doing?
[00:18:23] Tyler: the main questions I had, really surrounding like the band of horses thing was like, I guess when things started feeling like they weren't really like a all in, like collaborative, effort with all the guys in the band, that started feeling a little bit like, Is this just for the money Cause it, it did, it got to a point where I was a little bit, it didn't feel quite as fun for a while. And then my daughter was born and, she had some health issues at first even just. Aside from that, she was born and I would go out on these long tours and really not feel like it was, it didn't feel as satisfying at that point.
that made it feel really hard to leave the house, you know, to get on a plane and, cry my way to the next gig or whatever, just because I missed my family more than I wanted to be doing that. it didn't even out, it didn't balance out after a while. So yeah, that, that kind of pushed me towards really not wanting to do that anymore.
And then, the fact that I'm still out touring and having to do that is, still an issue, but it's like what I said before about feeling like I'm, I've got my heart all in this and I being a creative person, I can pour everything into this and
hmm.
and I don't feel like I'm selling myself short or, losing that feeling of being like well, I guess I'm, just a guitar player in this band.
that's not really what I ever really planned on doing with my life. So, It's good to be on the other side of that. that was definitely an adjustment period and life had to settle back in. And I had to figure out my path after that, but it feels like things are going in a good direction.
Yeah,
[00:19:55] Aaron: to be. when they initially asked you to join the band, was that another kind of moment of inflection, or was it kind of sure, the music seems fun let's, see what. This could be. Was it that kind of thing or was it like I really had to sit and be like, Is this worth the sacrifice of my career?
[00:20:11] Tyler: I didn't think about that enough, but I did have that record coming out, a long dream, which I was really excited about. And it seemed like, there was a little bit of momentum going with that for the first time. And, and what I was doing, I felt like there was something happening, so it wasn't like a, instant like, hell yeah, I'm gonna do this right away.
It, hmm. I remember calling my wife and, telling her what was going on. And we had a serious conversation about like, this seem like it really makes sense? Or is it, with this record coming out, should I do this? And I think the fact that At the time, it was a possibility that I could go out and open those shows.
That kind of like really pushed me in the direction of doing both.
it wasn't clear cut decision, And I didn't really, I guess looking back on it, I didn't really think I thought the two could go along together, forever, but it, it seemed like at a point it was definitely like, putting kind of a, blanket on what I was trying to do
On my own.
[00:21:08] Aaron: Yeah, it can be such a, complex question to answer,
[00:21:11] Tyler: yeah, it's, I mean, it's wild because I was out doing things that. I never would have dreamt that I would have gotten to do that. Some of that stuff, some of the things we were, crazy things that, we were getting to do, shows we were getting to play and people were getting to meet and all that stuff.
It just, it was a wild ride that I never thought I would, would have been on. And, wasn't even a part of my hopes and dreams at all. It wasn't like I wanted to be a guitar player in a rock band. It was never something I considered.
[00:21:37] Aaron: yeah, just asked cuz twofold like I used to be a side guy for hire spend most of the year on the road You And, you know, caught the studio bug both as a session musician and playing on records and then also making records and inevitably, probably with the help of the pandemic, I fully went to, I'm not on the road anymore.
We're sitting in the studio that I built in the backyard. And so I do that. And somebody just this morning asked like, would you go back on the road? And like, what would that take? And, you know, my go to just quick answer like, know, what would it take to be a phone call from Paul McCartney? Like, you know, you know sure I do that, you know, but like Inevitably, it's more nuanced than that and just trying to think like, you know What would that be It's been six years or so now that i've been like focused on my career I write still and, production. So it's a more, I don't have to wait for my phone to ring as much kind of thing. You know what I mean? It's feels more as close to a solo career as I'm going to have, cause I'd be, nobody wants me fronting a band into a microphone, maybe an instrumental thing.
part of my question is like, what would it take for me to make that choice to. at least share this priority with another project. And then conversely, a lot of, being in Nashville, I work with artists that are, guitar players, for instance, that, are sidemen in other bands and are faced with this choice of like, man, next year is going to be a really busy year. With this band, do I go with this band? do I not, how do those play together? And it just, it can be so nuanced in making that decision.
[00:23:01] Michaela: I think also one of the things we talk about a lot on this podcast is everyone's personal evolution of what success looks like.
when you start out young, I mean, it's interesting to hear you say, like, you didn't have the vision of yourself of wanting to be a, a rock star. And there's like this blanketed, also an outside assumption of, oh, if you want to be a musician, you must want to be famous and play the biggest stages.
And I think a lot of people can go down that path without even really knowing if that's what they truly want. and then the process of learning. You could be playing Madison Square Garden and be getting paid a lot of money and have the nicest amenities, but you might not be fulfilled by that.
And that's very real. And I think that's hard to understand when you're younger or if you never get to experience that dichotomy.
[00:23:53] Tyler: Yeah. I mean, Who would believe that? Who would believe that that wouldn't be like the most incredible thing you could do? One's gonna listen to you complain about, getting to play at Madison Square Garden or whatever. It's, but yeah, no, it's so true. I've said this before, this kind of like little moment in my life where I realized really what I wanted to do with music.
And it was so simple I still feel that way. This was like years and years ago. I went and we had a place called be here now. And in Asheville was a venue that was, that was around a long time ago. back when there wasn't a lot going on in town and it was kind of the only place where good shows would come and it was probably I think they could probably fit 400 people in there or something.
I saw Leo Kaki play there and he's one of my guitar heroes. I've seen him a bunch, but I was outside when he pulled up. I guess I was just walking by the venue or something, but I saw him pull up in a rental car. And get out by himself, get his guitars out of the trunk and walk in, and play this show to like pretty small audience, and just like, blew my mind.
And I think everybody else in there, it was just an incredible, he was a great and is a great performer and has a cool stage presence, but like the fact that he just hopped out of a rental car with his guitars, walks in, plays a show. Picks up his check, goes back out, puts his guitars back in the trunk and drives to, Charlotte or wherever it was he was going next.
I was like, that's really cool. That's, I want to do that. I want to live like a kind of a, I get to be like a little solitary journey and play music for people. And that was like my highest goal really was like seeing somebody do that in a, medium sized listening room, that's always been where I thought I was going to be at, but yeah, I got to do the big stuff, play like Madison Square Garden, play, Red Rocks, fly all over the world and play, big shows. And I got to see what that was like.
And it sure was fun for a while, but It's not really where I feel like my music fits there was some kind of disconnect that started feeling bigger and bigger. I feel like where I'm at now and the rooms I'm getting to play. I just feel like way more connected, to the people that are there and to my own reason for doing it and my own music and the reason I'm playing those songs.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
[00:26:02] Aaron: I love what you said that's not the place, that was fun and that was cool and all, but that's not the place that my music fits. I feel it takes so much experience, like hard earned experience to have that viewpoint, of like, That's great, but that's not for my music.
That's not for my project and like there's a lot of wisdom in that for sure
[00:26:19] Tyler: It's a, a fact, but it's, it's, you know, it's, it's true. I mean, I, think about some of these bands that start off like really imagine like Bon Iver or like the Fleet Foxes when they were first getting going and the beautiful subtle music that they were playing. And then they just blew up in a way that was like required them to like alter maybe what they were doing.
I don't know. I mean, I feel like Fleet Foxes kind of stayed on their path. Path. But I, you know, it was wild to watch those guys in front of an audience that like Coachella when they were first blowing up and just see, oh, this is like a really beautiful, subtle, music that they're creating and they're having to amp it up to be in, front of that crowd, you know, it's like, it doesn't really, It doesn't translate when you're in front of a festival audience necessarily unless you force it into that place.
So I don't know. That's just an observation that I,
[00:27:14] Michaela: Yeah, we absolutely, we've had lots of guests talk about that kind of stuff too, of not just going along in your career, being like, oh yeah, I wanna play Bonnaroo, I wanna play Newport, I wanna play, all these places. Just because that's what we think the list is. But really starting to learn those types of things of like, maybe that would be a cool experience, but where would be like most connective or, most effective to be able to express what I want to express and not what's going to look cool or what, you just like cookie cutter we played Bonnaroo granted.
I played a tiny stage, but it was like my least favorite day of the year that's the funny thing about it like it looks cool But when you're a baby band on a massive festival like that you play like the smallest stage at the earliest time slot There's not that many people there like, yeah, versus playing a way lesser known, small kind of homegrown festival where there's like several hundred people in your tent and like, it doesn't look as.
It's cool on industry standards, but it's so much more fulfilling and connective learning that stuff I think is really like a process of trial and error unless you're just given some great wisdom at a young age to know specifically what your path is.
[00:28:32] Tyler: Yeah. No, I agree. I think When you're starting out, you're thinking those are the right places to be. And, And then you get there. I did that same thing. I played on the small stage at Bonnaroo. I think when that record Long Dream came out, like it might've been right around the time when I joined Band of Horses.
I can't honestly remember, but I played in like the beer tent or something on a stage. And like, there were probably like 80 people paying attention and then like, 50 more just hanging out to get out of the burning sun or
Yeah.
you know, and then we're on the main stage, you know, a couple of years later or something.
And so I've seen both of those you know, they were both fun,
for me, those, places, like those small festivals or those, listening rooms that you get to play and the entire crowd is just silent and watching what you're doing. That's for me, for what I'm creating.
That's kind of the, dream, scenario and and I, and a big part of what I feel like I do try really hard to like connect with people, that's what I'm hoping, and more and more so as I go along, I feel like Getting to actually like really talk to people after a show or like, you know, have those conversations and, see where my music is meeting people and stuff.
That's a big part of what makes tour feel good is someone comes up to me after a show and says that they had a really hard time for a while and my record was helped them through it. That means so much to me. And that's kind of fuel to keep doing it as well.
[00:29:53] Aaron: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think it's, easily quantifiable validation to say, yeah, I want to play Saturday night at Coachella, most people can see what that is. that's a lot of people there's a number to it.
There's, you know, whatever it is versus. I want to go out from Thursday to following Sunday, be out for 10 days. I want to play listening rooms where that vibe is just there and thick and present it's a much more, again, nuanced thing to describe and to envision.
Well, to also
[00:30:21] Michaela: be like, you've mentioned several times personally connecting with people. the audience, some musicians really aren't comfortable with that and would prefer to get to a place where they don't ever have to go out and sell their own merch or talk to people.
And then there are artists who love that aspect that's very vital part of creating is getting to have that, rapport with fans that become acquaintances and friends because you get to connect through music. I think that's part of everybody determining what their why is that you talked about.
do you have any practices in your life that you lean on to like, help you stay grounded in that or, stay connected to when you get a little wayward of what is your why, are there things that you do also to help you stay creative and right?
[00:31:12] Tyler: I might be in a place right now where I don't have those accessible easily. I. If you were to ask me that, like four months ago, I probably would have given you a list of things. my go to answer was always like walking in the woods, going for walks in the woods even on tour, I would go find a place to go get away from the city on days off or things like that.
And those kinds of things would keep me grounded every time, you drive past a beautiful river on a tour, you have to stop and jump in the river, those kinds of like moments that, feel like actual life, but I feel like right now I'm kind of in the thick of it.
I just finished a tour where there was no day off the whole time. I was like, man, I cannot do this again. Like this is not the way that I'm going to be able to continue down this path I do need those things where I'm like, feeling grounded and feeling rested.
And, so yeah, I, feel like I should give some answer that's not that, but right now I'm a little bit on the where is that feeling uh, side right now. And also it's just being home and, being a dad is everything and it takes a lot. So I feel like I'm kind of in that place where like, I'm not being super creative.
I'm just putting my head down in a way and trying to like be as present here with my family. I'm not scratching the itch of creativity right now as much as I probably would like, but that's just the way it is right now. I did wake up this morning after I played last night and I woke up this morning.
I'd stayed down at my parents house in Hendersonville, which is not far from here. But they were out of town and I, I went and just stayed at their house. Cause it was like 10 minutes from the place I played. And I woke up this morning and sat at the piano. That's been the piano that I had since I was a kid.
And I just had this really beautiful I don't know. I felt that creative flow and I just had a really cool moment this morning that felt like, Oh, still have that in me, you know, it's like, I'm still connected to that feeling. And. touching the keys of the piano that I'd played when I was 10 years old, I just felt like this connection to what I've always been doing.
whether or not I'm able to pay attention to my creative side all the time, I know it's still there. And it's just waiting for me to catch my breath and be able to, explore it, I
[00:33:19] Michaela: Yeah, an honest answer is the best answer. Yeah. So, There's no answer we're looking for. Yeah.
[00:33:27] Aaron: No, absolutely, because like, love systems that I can put into place that allow me to be creative and, now being a parent, allow me to show up and be creative on demand in a way. You know, it's like, well, I have these four hours, you know, I have this right schedule that's gotta, you know, we gotta hit it.
I have my things, but like, They don't always work. sometimes it's out of necessity. And, having this podcast, I think your episode will be close to episode 60 or something. So we had a lot of these. We've had a lot of these conversations.
And, you know, inevitably, a lot of our immediate community has listened to a lot of these and like, you have that podcast you talk about like, staying grounded and staying creative and like, I'm like, I don't, I talk about it into a microphone, which gives this sense of authority.
But like, more often than not, I feel the way you do. you know, because I spend most of my time in my studio, there's a more predictability to my days and like routine, because I'm not in and out of town as much. So even if I am doing these practices that I know, exercising or meditating or all of that.
I do those every day and the effectiveness. Wayne's, same thing doesn't always mean the same result.
[00:34:29] Michaela: Well, I think it's so challenging to honor the ebb and flow of our own creativity, especially when we feel any sense of pressure because we have a professional track that we're on.
So then therefore think we need to be professional. Creating and producing consistently because that's how we work and survive financially. I don't feel like writing every day. especially you just put a record out, you're promoting the record.
It's like your body needs to recharge. to feel totally okay with yeah, I'm going to go however long I go without writing. Or practicing. That's totally fine. why not? Like, You
[00:35:10] Tyler: Yeah. I
[00:35:11] Michaela: all of it.
[00:35:11] Tyler: It is just a reality of that pursuit is that it's going to come and go. I think, I guess there's people that do sit down every day and write and write and write, and then they come up with something and, but yeah feel like when you get parenting involved and you get, gardening involved or anything, things shift in their level of importance and the amount of concentration you have to give to them.
So I I try to be really forgiving as well Just like I'm not being creative right now. Like I'm out playing shows and that is, also a creative process. I mean, I, I'm always trying to stay really connected to the songs that I recorded in a way that feels creative.
Like, I feel like I'm interpreting them when I'm out playing shows, like it's own creative process. And then I'm, trying really hard to, Communicate from the stage as well. Like That's part of what I do when I play shows is constantly adjusting the way that I, speak to the audience and like things that I say and That's a cool part of it, but yeah the actual songwriting part, it comes in waves and I try not to get nervous that it's not going to come back.
You know, I
Yeah. I've never really been too worried about that. I just feel like it's. a matter of time and the right circumstance, Yeah.
[00:36:20] Aaron: Yeah. What you're saying reminds me of fellow North Carolinian Barham, who tours under American Aquarium and releases records under American
[00:36:29] Tyler: Oh, yeah.
[00:36:30] Aaron: the way he put it is like, you know, when you're younger, you try to force that creativity and it's like, you're standing out there with a bucket, like running around trying to catch all this rain.
And as you get older you, can feel when it's about to rain and you can set up the situation to be able to be there in the rain, so it's less chasing and it's actually more efficient. Yeah.
[00:36:47] Tyler: just put the bucket out in the
[00:36:49] Michaela: Yeah.
[00:36:50] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:36:52] Tyler: Hope it, gathers some things. Yeah.
[00:36:54] Michaela: that's one of the reasons I really like to learn about and hear people's honest answers of their creative flow.
I subscribe to Nick Cave's Red Hand Files that he writes and he wrote one where he talked about He writes two projects. he's like, okay, I need to write a record. I'm gonna start writing But he's not someone who's constantly writing and he described it of like, he gets really grumpy He thinks everything's terrible.
He's saying how bad his songs are. His wife is like, what's your deal? Can you relax and then and then he's like it and then he's putting the record out and he's grumpy because he's like anticipating and his wife's like, are you nervous? And he's like, no. And he's like, and then I see the first good review or positive response to my music.
And all of a sudden I'm like, Oh, okay. I feel good. And I was like this is so refreshing to hear that even Nick Cave at this stage in his life and career still is a victim to those, cycles. And maybe it's just the surrender to it and not apologizing for it and knowing that it's just the season and cycles.
[00:37:55] Tyler: It totally is. having done it for so long. I mean, You can't help but see a pattern in your own uh, work, I know that, yeah, there's the time when I'm, when I'm writing and I'm feeling creative it's almost all in.
And then you, get to a point where like, I have an album, for those of us that are still, pursuing doing albums, I guess
Yep.
you get to that point and then you start that process of demoing and, envisioning what, the songs can become and then the studio can take it out of you in a, certain way, you know, I I think the studio is can be the most exhausting part of the process. But, oh, besides actually the part after that is the most exhausting part, which is the part where you figure out how you're going to get your record out, you know, like, Yeah.
with all that stuff. Um, that's the part that can leave you really like, laid out. yeah, and then you're, and then you're out touring and then you You wake up one day and you're like, I need to write that down.
You write something down and then you're, this is all, my path. But like, yeah, you, start to write things down and, next thing you know, you're writing another song and there you go again.
[00:38:58] Aaron: I mean,
I noticed that with you. the bottom of the barrel is like, when you're sitting on a record that's done, before there's like a full release plan.
[00:39:05] Michaela: Oh yeah, you mean like right now? I
[00:39:08] Aaron: was leaving that for you to say.
[00:39:10] Michaela: I literally said today like, I feel so off and weird like I'm just like waiting for something and I'm like looking for something which tells me I need to like turn off my phone and go on a walk, which I did, but I'm like, we finished a record, so I'm not in the throes of writing.
I'm like starting to just get that itch to want to write again, but. I'm not like really in it, the like high of making the record and being like, I've listened to it a bunch and mixes, it's kind of waning. And now I'm like, all right, what's next? Like, While I wait to know what's happening. Yeah.
[00:39:46] Tyler: it's exhausting. I wish there was some other way. I've had this feeling a lot that the way that the music industry is how much, creativity and beautiful artwork and music has been like stifled by that part of the process. Like What if we
Oh, yeah.
you know, keep flowing.
But there's always that time where you're like. Either you're figuring out what label, I'm going to send this out to labels or just if you're dealing with the same label, you're like, what's the schedule? Like, What's the best time to release? And that stuff is, death to creativity.
It's not part of my brain at all. I'm just like, I didn't have to go through that every time, but it seems like it's just what it's going to be, you know, and with the music industry shuffling around trying to figure out what it is right now.
It's kind of makes it even harder I think
[00:40:30] Michaela: I've been learning. I'm, 37. I've been doing this for a little over 10 years I feel like I'm just now starting to see, Oh, I recognize this feeling. What could I do to help it? Okay, this is the in between time. What do I do? Do I spin out of control and get anxious and like hate it? Or is this the time that like, I sit in the hammock and read a book or go get some flowers to plant and that's what I'm learning to recognize that stuff and give into it and be like, Oh, why don't I enjoy the in between time rather than focusing, I know what this is, how do I do it differently than how I've done it in the past to minimize my suffering?
honor it, and also enjoy it in a different way, and use the time to do the things that we don't get to do when we're in the throes of writing, recording, touring.
[00:41:22] Tyler: Yeah. No, that's a good point. i'm gonna write that down Rethink that downtime
Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean I it can sometimes it goes on and on and you're just like, all right this is too much, but I guess the normal amount of downtime would be easily kind of like reworked into something that felt like maybe giving yourself a break, this record came after the, pandemic and I had lost, worked with fantasy on my last record and, and I'm with soundly on this record.
Mhmm.
but there was a big in between where it was just like,
What is happening.
floating in space with a, with an album that I had poured everything into, including a lot of my own money, you know, and just. the silent waiting period of what's going to happen can really get to you.
I'll try and rethink it next time.
[00:42:07] Aaron: it's a space for your thoughts to just run, especially when personally financially invested in it as well. You're like, here we go. What is this going to be?
And you just
[00:42:14] Michaela: feel so impatient because you're like, you have that energy that you want to be able to put to work.
[00:42:20] Tyler: And you can go through so many phases with your album that you created, you're just loving it one day. Then you're like, I should have changed that part. And then you're like, you know, it's like if the longer it goes on, you're just up and down, like what? And then you're like, what have I done?
And I need to start over again. Or I don't know. It can really spin you out sometimes. But,
[00:42:39] Michaela: And by the time it comes out and you're supposed to go on tour to play all the songs, you've like listened to it millions of times and you're sick of it and you're like,
[00:42:49] Tyler: not.
[00:42:50] Aaron: I know. I joke that that's why it's called an album release because it's you're released from that, holding onto it.
You're like, it's out. I'm released.
[00:42:56] Tyler: That's true
[00:42:57] Aaron: see, let's see what
[00:42:58] Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. Yep, release it and then you can get creative again. It's the way that it works for me once it's out there, but yeah, it's definitely a release. when this record came out, I was in Nashville the day it was released and I played at Grimey's Did like a little in store thing
[00:43:13] Aaron: hmm. Mm
[00:43:14] Tyler: hmm. I went back to my hotel room and just was so emotional.
I was like by myself, it was such a crazy path. The whole process, like writing and recording all that so much went into it. And then just having it finally, like it's out, I was like laughing and crying, you know, just every single emotion there in my little hotel room in Nashville while I was trying to go to sleep, you know, just like
[00:43:38] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:43:40] Tyler: it's a wild ride.
Yeah. It is.
[00:43:42] Aaron: So congrats to being on this side of the release and, getting to exercise the live in person part of the creativity.
[00:43:48] Michaela: Yeah.
[00:43:49] Tyler: Thank you so much.
[00:43:50] Michaela: And thank you for sharing a lot of your story with us today and spending some time with us to talk about this stuff. So we really appreciate it.
[00:43:58] Tyler: Yeah. Thank you guys for having me on and It's good to talk about this stuff with people that can relate.
[00:44:04] Aaron: Yeah. Definitely. For us too. Yeah.
[00:44:06] Tyler: yeah, that's, that's awesome.
[00:44:08] Aaron: Yeah. Well, hopefully we'll, we'll cross paths sometime.
That'd be great.
[00:44:12] Tyler: yeah. Let me know if you guys are coming over and thank you for this. I appreciate
Yeah. Thank you. Our
[00:44:16] Aaron: pleasure. All right. All right, Tyler. Bye. See